Debbie Henne joins The World’s Mayor for a heartfelt conversation about the church, Faith, God and how “goody to shoe” Christians have more in common with Misfit and Outcast Believers than what most would think..

Meet Debbie

“I am a speech-language pathologist by day and an author by night, but all day every day, I’m a wife, mother, and Jesus lover.

I’m almost always found typing away at my computer after tucking my kids in at night. But…I don’t always write at my computer. Sometimes I can be found writing with an old-fashioned pen and paper at my keyboard. I have written prophetic songs, songs inspired by biblical revelation, and worship songs. I love how music unlocks hearts and can transport us into the presence of God.

I don’t believe life is about being perfect. It’s about being “ever changed.” God has given me incredible experiences in His presence, including a powerful vision where He took me up to heaven. I was never the same. My vision is to connect hearts to the heart of God so people can live in the empowerment and victory that comes through a genuine connection to God and His supernatural power. Then we can all be forever changed.”

Thank you for being a part of this segment of Joshua “The World’s Mayor” on the Live Mana Network, brought to you by the Live Mana Worldwide Foundation.

The Live Mana Network is broadcast all over the world on your favorite streaming audio and video platforms like Apple TV, ROKU, Amazon Fire, and iTunes. You can also find us on Google News, and other print mediums.

Buy Debbie’s Books


Joshua T Berglan 0:00
Hey, what’s up everybody, my name is Joshua and welcome to Joshua, the world’s mayor, we have a very, very special segment coming up. I am those of you who’ve watched my different broadcasts over the years know, before I got into working in entertainment and working with products and working in media. I was very blessed to work with complex disabilities for 18 years and had the opportunity to work with a lot of different speech pathologist because we worked with stroke victims, you know, people that were had complex disabilities, but but also autism, people that had cerebral palsy, and the works and I got to work with a lot of speech pathologist. You know, indirectly not necessarily directly because they weren’t, they weren’t fitting to our equipment. But the work that I got to witness them do was so special and so inspiring to me. And then I dated a girl also for about two and a half years who had a son who was autistic. And so going to occupational therapy and working with the speech therapist, it was truly one of the most inspiring things in the world to me. I mean, there’s a lot of reasons why it’s inspiring, but the biggest one is like the patience and the ability to find solutions to the problem to me that in itself, you could you could isolate that one thing from speech pathology, and incorporate it to all walks of life and and that to me, it’s something that’s really, really special. So with that, I’m so excited to have our guest Deborah Henny on today. And she wrote a book called gentleness is not what you think. So the title alone has me excited, I have not had the opportunity to read the book. But I’m excited to learn more about Deborah, learn more about our book, and also just what makes her tick. And also, what gives her the heart for people to want for them to understand the heart of God. That in itself is inspiring. So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the one and only Deborah honey. What’s up, Deborah, how are you?

Debbie Henne 2:03
I’m doing well. How are you? Thank you for having me on your show today.

Joshua T Berglan 2:07
I am honored I thank you for your patience. There’s been a there’s been a lot of delays lately. But those are okay, because I believe sometimes God puts those in our life for a reason. So the timing of this is great. And I’m honored to have you here. Thank you for being here.

Debbie Henne 2:24
Thank you. It’s an honor to be here.

Joshua T Berglan 2:26
So first things first, what are you grateful for today, and why?

Debbie Henne 2:31
I am so grateful for my family. We’ve had some talk about unexpected, some very unexpected medical surprises happen over the last few weeks, one involving our youngest daughter, and one involving my mom. And God has been so faithful and so good through them through all of it, even though the circumstances aren’t good. God is good. And God has shown his goodness and His faithfulness. And I was just so glad that we’re all still here. And we’re all still loving Jesus together.

Joshua T Berglan 3:06
Hallelujah. So have you always been a woman of faith?

Debbie Henne 3:10
Yes, I was raised in a Christian home. Both of my parents became Christians before they had us kids. So they raised us in the church. I went to Christian School from sixth through 12th grade, even hung out at a Christian coffeehouse I call myself Christian bubble girl. So I went to a secular university and had a little bit of culture shock there. But um, but it’s all good. And so yeah, I was raised with the Christ focus, and bringing everything back to Jesus.

Joshua T Berglan 3:42
I would have driven you crazy growing up. I was like the church girls worst nightmare. While I was attending church, too, by the way, I was one of those people that left church and when did cocaine and did a lot of bad stuff. So but when I gave my life to Jesus, it was amazing. All that destruction that I caused, how he’s been able to use it for something good, something of purpose, because what I was doing before I had no purpose, other than inflicting trauma on people that tried to love me. So I mean, it’s tough. So I’ve always been very uncomfortable around church girls, or well, church people, because, well, our perception, the people that come from a broken, dark place, our perception of the goody two shoes, and I’m not saying that you are, but the perception is, well, they don’t know what it’s like. So how would they ever understand me? And so a lot of people stay away from the Church for that reason. Can you address that from your perspective? Because I’m not saying any of that’s true, because perceptions are what they are. They’re their assumptions. They’re their stereotypes. There’s things that we make up there lies that some of us tell ourselves to keep us from entering those doors. Can you can you speak to

Debbie Henne 4:59
that? Oh, absolutely, I think, you know, even though people might look at the choices I’ve made in life and say, Oh, you’re squeaky clean, I would say that there were a lot of internal struggles, you know, I’m a real person with real life situations that happen. And you know, developmentally, there are stages that you go through, you know, through, especially your teen years. And even though I did make those destructive choices, the potential was there, the struggles inside, were there, I think I was very blessed to have a good support system that supported and coached me through that. So it kind of took me in a little bit of a different direction than it could have. But I struggled as a teen and I did write that in my book. Gentleness is not what you think that I struggled in secret for a long time with eating disorders, and severe depression and suicide, I almost committed suicide when I was like, 1415 years old, I had a plan. I had a letter I had a day. And I remember the day, just like it was yesterday, I was sitting on the top of the hill at my parents house sits on a hill in the country. And I had, this was the day I was going to do it. And God argued me out of it was an argument that I had with God of, it’s my life. And it’s mine to take. I don’t see any point in continuing this existence, because I saw no hope. And I think that at the core of, you know, things like drug addiction, and even though it’s not something I I personally went through, I think it’s hopelessness. And you’re looking for something to make you feel better. And so I struggled very much with that. And God worked a miracle in my heart over the course of years. It wasn’t immediate. It wasn’t instantly, you know, he argued me off the precipice that day. But it wasn’t all better. The next morning when I woke up, it was years of going through inner healing ministry going through some counseling, you know, taking my thoughts captive, and making those thoughts that aren’t obedient to Christ and His truth and capturing them and saying, Nope, you are going to obey God. And so it was a process. But it was life changing.

Joshua T Berglan 7:31
I love that you said that. Because I promise you that there’s people watching right now or listening right now, or even reading the transcript that read that read that and said, I had no idea. Because all that you just spoke about is well with the misfits, and the junkies and the degenerates. It’s what we experience, not the girl raised in church. That’s empowering.

Debbie Henne 8:04
Yeah. And I think that was part of it, too, was I struggled in secret for so long, because I had the perception that people of faith don’t have the struggles. So if I had the struggles, the struggles, it meant, I didn’t have faith. And I think that was a big lie that I had to realize and recognize, and then I was able to get help. Because just because you have those emotions and those feelings and those struggles doesn’t mean you lack faith, it just means that you have an area of struggle, and you’re a human being.

Joshua T Berglan 8:36
Yeah, and I don’t know if, like, Do you believe in generational curses and things like that?

Debbie Henne 8:42
I do? Yes, I do. Yes. I

Joshua T Berglan 8:44
mean, that stuff could have been passed down and which is a, it’s so weird that how that is set up, how we have the sins of the father, they’re passed on to generation, a generation. And we are all given this assignment, to not just walk our own path that that God has created us for. But along the way, in that path. It’s healing by father and grandfather, on all their trauma, too. It’s such a weird design. But I have found it to be empowering. Because that sense of responsibility to me gives purpose on top of the other purpose that I have. Have you found it when you were going through your struggle? What was probably the worst thing for you? Was it was it Well, I mean, you probably have already answered it. Was it the simply that you thought because you grew up in this environment? You thought you were alone? You thought you were the only one dealing with it, the only one struggling? So you silenced yourself? Would you say that that was the worst part of that experience?

Debbie Henne 9:53
That was probably the worst part because once I started to open up and talk to at first some peers and Some friends and realize that I wasn’t the only one that had these struggles. It’s it that was a turning point. And I never got back to that level of loneliness, and hopelessness again. And I was able to take steps forward. And post it, you know, when you start to open up, you get your support system,

Joshua T Berglan 10:25
as truth attracts your tribe. Yeah, that is a big, that’s a big thing. Because, well, I’m a firm believer that the testimonies that we share should be raw and authentic. And look, everyone’s version of raw is different. Mine was ugly, and, and I and we, but God put it on my heart to share it, honestly, all of it, even whatever consequences brought onto it, like going back to jail and things like that. But that for me, I found complete freedom. And in sharing the truth of my testimony, and, and I, and I think it’s empowering, when anyone does it, regardless of what it is like when you tell the truth about anything. It has this amazing supernatural ability to heal, not just ourselves, but it could be healing other people that are suffering in the same way, or people that are holding on to your secrets, that for you, like sometimes we can enslave other people by wanting them to keep our secrets. And so I love that you said that and you found that. Let me ask you this. What is your faith? How has your faith impacted your career as a speech pathologist? Like what what has been the biggest impact because I’ve seen a lot of a different different approaches. And, and I there’s the school, you’re the school way of doing things, then there’s the way that is a little bit more, I think, spirit letter, it’s your gifting and you’re able to think outside of the box. I mean, there’s all of these different things that therapist of all kinds. I love it when they come up with their own ideas and do things like that. But what would you how would you say that your faith has helped you and impacted your career as a speech pathologist?

Debbie Henne 12:24
Well, my career has been an interesting journey, for sure. It’s, you know, started my brother’s deaf, he lost his hearing when he was three. So I grew up watching my mom work with my brother and a speech homework. And my mom said, you know, when career day came, and I wanted to go into nutrition, and she said, You know, I always just thought you’d be a great speech therapist. And I said, I will never be a speech therapist. Famous last words, right. So career day came and it was coming. And I couldn’t find a dietitian to shadow. So she said, I’m telling you just just go down to local elementary school shadow on your brother’s old speech therapist was fine. And you know, I loved it. I loved it. And I prayed about college. My parents wanted me to go to college. And my whole driving force, my whole life was family. All I wanted to do was be a mom, and wife. And I said, and I knew that God had ministry in my future. And it’s kind of like, sometimes God gives you the end vision. But he doesn’t. He shows you like, level k, but isn’t. He doesn’t show you ABC. So I was like, Oh,

Joshua T Berglan 13:47
I have trouble thinking those visions men today.

Debbie Henne 13:51
Right? So he showed me at age seven, that he had a place for me in ministry, and traveling and writing. And and so that’s where my head was at 14 1516. I was like, I don’t need College, I’m going into ministry, I’m going to speak, I’m going to be a speaker. And so my, my parents were like, Well, I think you should go to college. I think that’s a good first step out of high school. And I pray so I’m gonna pray about it. So I prayed about it. And God said, go to college. So, and then I prayed about what should I go into? And he very clearly said speech therapy. So that’s what I did. I went to become a speech therapist, and I see it very much as a training ground for his next steps for me in my life. I’m still a practicing speech therapist. I do love it. I love working with the patients. I think as far as my faith, I can’t bring up my faith with a resident or A patient, but if they bring it up to me, and they want to talk about things, I’m allowed to walk through that door, I can’t open it, but I can walk through it. So I have had some opportunities over the years, to, to minister and to pray with people. You know, I work in most of my career, I’ve worked in skilled nursing. So

Joshua T Berglan 15:25

Debbie Henne 15:28
a lot that goes with that with end of life. And, you know, giving people that comfort and dignity through the end. And so it’s been, you know, it’s been a very fulfilling, satisfying career. You know, it’s such an honor to serve our elders, and those who have lived full lives and served our country serve their families served there, they’re my

Joshua T Berglan 15:58
favorite. The war veterans, oh, my gosh, they are the best. And the women that the women that you know, that they played their roles, like from World War Two, and World War One, and wow, just some amazing stories you get to hear, alright, sorry.

Debbie Henne 16:18
No, I was gonna say I love hearing their stories. I remember. I mean, I think about faith at work. I remember one time we had a person, and they it was at the point where they called the family to come. And, you know, they were making the phone calls to the family. And I just sat there in the room. And I couldn’t stay very long. Because, you know, as a therapist, you have to keep the bill and coming, you know, it’s a business. So, but I just wanted to pray for her. So I just kind of silently stood there for a couple of minutes and prayed over her. And then I left the room, went to my, you know, down the hall to down my list. And the next day, the person had a complete turnaround, sitting up, eating by themselves eating dry by themselves. And they were, you know, dementia to going on. And in their dementia. All they they were willing to start wheeling themselves down the hallway, talking about getting everybody on the bus to go to heaven with Jesus. I don’t know what happened after that prayer. But it was, it was interesting, that person live for a few months, wheeling themselves down the hallway never stops sometimes as a bus, sometimes as a boat, sometimes as a plane, but they’re trying to get everybody on board with Jesus to heaven. And then they a couple months later the person did past mono. You never know what happens in the spirit when you pray and the impact that.

Joshua T Berglan 17:55
Wow, I love those stories. And I made me think of I have a lot of friends because I worked and I’ve worked in the same field. I mean, on the equipment side. But I’ve worked with a lot of you know, doctors and nurses of all varieties. And I can’t I can’t think of a single one that is a believer. I mean, nurses? Yes. I don’t know. Actually, I know most of the nurses are believers, the doctors aren’t. But then the nurses aren’t allowed to openly pray, which is an interesting dynamic, but then when crap is hitting the fan, they always go find the nurse to the praying nurse, the doctor will always go find her as the last ditch effort or even earn a man. And I think that’s really, really interesting in that space, because you’re around ego. And I don’t know necessarily know exactly what the doctors that you work with, like if there’s as much ego as some of the other ones that I’ve worked with, especially surgeons. But when they don’t they kind of have this like, well, I’m god, I’m the one that’s going to save. But when that happens, have you ever been in that situation where you’re around that doctor that believes that they’re the ones that are they’re the they’re the God in this? Have you ever had one come to you and go hey, can you pray? Have you ever had that happen?

Debbie Henne 19:13
I haven’t had that happen yet. I’m in skilled nursing the doctor. They have to see new admits and then they come once a month to see work with nurses. But the you know, the medical director, you know, we I worked with him for years, obviously because I was in the same facility for like 16 years. So we got to know each other and we were friendly and he had a lot of respect for his staff. I had ran into more than that attitude of you know, I’m the Doctor and everybody else’s over here. At the hospital, I have a job where I work two weekends a month at one of our local hospitals in the Stroke Program. And that’s a separate job from my main job and Um, and there, it’s a little bit more, but again, I, you know, a lot of good doctors to that have a lot of respect and are very kind. And they’ll see me because I work, you know, on an on call basis in the program. So I’m not there very much. I’m not there every day, you know, I come in, I see my one or two people, and then I leave. So I don’t spend a lot of time there. And I’ve had some come out of their way and be like, you know, what I don’t think we’ve met yet. You know, what’s your name, they can tell by the color that I work in rehab. Like, Are you new here? I was like, no, actually, I’ve been here for a while I just pop in and out. We I guess we just didn’t meet each other and all the way yet. But I think I’ve just made I’ve just been very blessed. And I’ve worked with some really good, good team members. In general.

Joshua T Berglan 20:45
Yeah. I mean, I was just curious about that situation. But that now that you mentioned it, it makes sense. And it just, you know, there’s so much warfare. Go ahead.

Debbie Henne 20:56
I was gonna say, I probably should say that the hospital I work at is a is or was a Catholic hospital. So it was very faith based spiritual. They even have buttons if people want to wear them, like, I’m a person of prayer, so that they know who they can go find a staff member on the floor, who will pray with them. So maybe that kind of contributed to some of the differences in attitudes. And,

Joshua T Berglan 21:24
yeah, that’s nice. I like hearing that. I mean, look, Doc, doctors can do the work of God. Either or not God, though, at least in my experience, I am I want to go back to I’m kind of fixated on this, you know, growing up, you know, as a Christian, and going through the things that you went through, I am so grateful that you shared that because again, like I even look at my mom, and my mom is the patron saint of awesome. My grandmother was an amazing influence. My mom is awesome. I mean, she was always sending me Charles Stanley devotionals, in the middle of me doing the math are Koch. And, you know, I didn’t want to hear him at the time. But she was I didn’t want to see it, read it any of that at the time. But she was planting the seeds. But admittedly, like I’m sure it’s very uncomfortable for her sometimes to hear the sub some of the things that I talked about, of what I went through and the life I had before Jesus. And and I think of other people that I know, that grew up in the church and have had more of the appearance of that Leave It to Beaver style life by just really dated myself. We’ve been, wow, what year is this? Anyway? I watched it every day. It seems like yesterday, but no, it was 30 years ago, actually longer than that. Anyway, before I lose track of what I was saying, I it makes me think like, I want to fix this problem. And I’m gonna say that it’s a problem because there’s people like me, and I’m gonna make this about me for a second. But when I say me, I’m talking about the misfits, the junkies, the former prostitutes, the former porn stars, the killers, the gangbangers all those people on the surface, the church, and I’m going to stereotype it. On the surface, the Church says we welcome all we’re a hospital for Senators. And they’ll do anything they can to get you in the door. And then they get you in the door. And and you’re there and then you commit you do that you do the things and like you join their program, and you seem to be welcome as long as you’re playing your part. But when you get the opportunity and you share your testimony, or people get to know you a little bit more, and you start to open up and you’re authentic about your scars and your sin and your strong current struggles. That’s when a lot of people get the bat turned on them. I know I’m not the only one I could share a million different experience at a million I could share 25 different experiences probably with you if not a little bit more. And and I have a hard time with this because I love the Lord i I have no life I have no breath without the Lord and without what he has. He’s radically changed my life I mean going from having di D dissociative identity disorder where he basically I’m looked at as if I’m a demon possessed individual and I’m not anymore, but I was but the the the the struggle and the after effect of di D like it takes a while to heal it Okay, so I’m saying all this because I’m not the only one part of the work we do is for this reason, but I want to fix this problem. In other words, the church only welcomes you. And I’m, again, I’m stereotyping. The church seems to only welcome you when you’re willing to go along with their system. And every church has a system, every church has a way of doing things. And like they part of the training and part of the membership program is to get you on board. So you all fit into this little role. That’s not very welcoming for people like myself and other people that are like me. And mind you, yes, I’m in a suit. But that doesn’t mean anything. There’s a lot of people that look like me. And there’s other people that don’t look like me, that go through the struggle where they just don’t feel safe in the church. That’s the point. How do we change this culture, where we start to truly allow everybody and, and we create the space for people to be honest about their sin. Because what I’m getting at is this.

When I was in the Shadow World, half of the people I saw there that I was doing drugs and having sex with and everything else. Well, a lot of them were preachers are people in the church. Some of the people that took advantage of me from the church. And so I know that their secret struggle, like you talked about, there’s pastors that are struggling with their sexuality, but yet they’re telling people they’re going to help if they sleep with somebody at the same sex, we have all that going on. But I think the root of it is, we’re afraid to be honest, in the one place that we should be honest. And that’s the house of God. How do we fix this problem, where we allow truth in the church, because we’re not allowing that there. Because if people like me, every church, they go to that I won’t conform to their way, but I want to go to church there and be spiritually fed. And I want to give my tithes and offerings, and I want to serve, but I don’t fit into your box, and I’m not welcome. How do we change this? How do we changed church culture to allow for misfits instead of it being like a country club where you got to fit into this to be welcome here? That was a very long drawn out thing. I hope that made sense.

Debbie Henne 27:19
Oh, it makes total sense. Okay,

Joshua T Berglan 27:21
thank you, because I felt like I was just talking out of my ears.

Debbie Henne 27:25
total sense. And I agree with you. You know, I think that there needs to be a culture shift from and this is just my little lowly humble opinion, from programs to family. And I recently released a prophetic word about that, how, you know, it was so strong in my heart, that God said, I have called you, family. And with that, it was a sense of we in the church have created a system, it’s very smooth, it appears well oiled, but it doesn’t have the Holy Spirit oil on it. And it has all these appearances of operating in an efficient way. But it lacks the true heart of God. And the true heart of God is nothing but love. He wants, he has so much love that he’ll do anything to reach us, each one of us. He won’t, he doesn’t wanna leave anybody out and leave anybody behind. And he’ll do anything for people to have freedom. And he did. He did it already. And I think part of the problem is, each individual has to have that revelation of God’s love in their own heart, I think, in part. And this was kind of a revelation that I had, through my journey, that we have to love our neighbor as ourself. Which means we can’t change that. We have to see each person as a treasure of God, including ourselves. Because if we don’t value ourselves, and love ourselves as who God made us to be, I can’t really truly also value you. And I think there’s a culture of love that we’re lacking, and a revelation of God’s love that we’re lacking. And I mean, it can start up at the top and I think there has been a little bit of movement in that direction. I Do see a little bit more movement at some top top figures with being more authentic and being more honest. But there needs to be more of it. Because otherwise, everybody else looks at them and says, Well, that’s what I need to look like to or else I’m not qualified.

Joshua T Berglan 30:20
That just given a hand your microphone, so you drop it. That was awesome. It was so us. I am. And you’re right. I do think some people are starting to. Well, I think that I think people know the time short, and all that’s hidden will be revealed. And I believe that people can start to feel the heat out of some of their secrets, and they’re starting to go, Oh, crap, I can better tell it. I think that’s just the that’s the time that we’re in. Is everything. I mean, there’s been a lot of truth that’s been unveiled recently. And I believe that there’s going to be more and more and more of that coming. So I hope that it changes because here’s the problem.

Like we’re all senators, like every single one of us and some of those are worse than others. But the most disheartening thing I can think of, and I work having HIV, I’m very in battled my sexuality for most of my life. I’m like, I’m a friend to the LGBT community, not the movement, not the agenda, not the wealth finance thing that’s trying to, I won’t go there. But I do support the community because I know what it that’s like, I know what I know what my life was like before. I know what the Bible says. And I know what it’s like to feel that God doesn’t love me, even after giving my life to him. I know what it’s like, I know all those feelings. I know those feelings to just go. You know, the guilt and the shame and beating myself up if God doesn’t love me, because it says in this Bible that I’m not lovable. And all that may be true. But none of that is leading people to Jesus. And I think that one of the biggest problems that the church, and I blame, I actually blame the Catholic Church for this. Because they have, I’m trying to avoid going down wormholes here. That’ll take a whole nother hour. But I blame them. One because of how they’ve controlled the Bible, because every country in every region has a different version of the Bible with some of them with 86 books and what 66. And well, I mean, there’s a lot of differences. But where I blame the I think what’s happened is that the church has made it a relationship with the book instead of God. And I think that in that you can correct me if I’m wrong about this, I am not a Bible scholar. But the other thing that you I, I feel pretty strongly about is that some of us treat God as if he is only external. And the proof of that is how we treat ourselves. If our body is at Temple, and I’ve read verse after verse that says, Christ is inside of me, I’ve accepted the Holy Spirit. If Christ is inside of me, if God’s DNA is inside of me, while I’m a son of God, I’m not Jesus. I’m not a god. I’m not I’m not saying that. But I am saying that if Christ is in me, well, I think that the relationship with myself should be better, I should make more loving choices for myself, I should treat my body better, and thus recognizing that I should go well wait a second. If this is for me, then that’s the same for you. So when you say Do unto others as I do under you, well, I should love you and treat you with kindness and respect and love and not ridicule you and not lash out at you and not hurt you and not physically hurt you and all those things if well, like me, God isn’t I do. And I so what I’m getting at is the relationship has become a book solely focus book. And when people fight on social media, I got off social media this week. Best thing I ever did. I’m retired from social media. And the best thing about it is I don’t have to see people fighting over their interpretations of our Scripture. That’s not leading to people Jesus either. It’s being the love of Jesus, and walking that out and being what love is kind patient. not judgmental. All those things. That is what’s gonna make people go that person’s different. I want what they have. Would you agree or disagree?

Debbie Henne 34:55
I 100% agree. I I recently heard a quote I love it, that the world doesn’t read their Bibles, they read Christians. And so we need to become that living example of God’s love. And I can’t tell you how many times at work, or in the community, especially with the medical emergency we just had with our daughter, you know, in the ER in the hospital going to specialists and all that. And every single one of them was like, How are you so calm? How are you doing this? Both of you, not just me, mom, but the child. Also she’s only nine. And it was Jesus says about me. That’s Jesus in me. You know, because every waiting room, we held hands, and we prayed, we declared the goodness of God, we we brought our focus back to Jesus. And he carried us through that. And I same thing at work. They’re like, why are you now I have to wear a mask all the time. So they can’t see the smile, but they can see the eyes. And you know, like, You’re different. What’s different. I’ve gotten that so much. And I’m like, It’s Jesus. It’s Jesus. That’s Jesus in me. It should be coming out of our lives. And I do believe in the power of the Word of God. But I think part of the problem is, if we approach the Bible with our lens, which includes our flesh,

Joshua T Berglan 36:25
true, get twisted.

Debbie Henne 36:29
Yeah, it can get twisted. And then we get so wrapped up in our own perspectives that we can’t see somebody else’s. But if we instead approach the Bible, not through my filter, but through the filter of God’s love, yeah, it changes the way that we read Scripture and some of the stories and some of the verses, especially as it addresses relationships, it totally transforms and it doesn’t become about, you know, well, this is this doctrine, or this is this, it becomes more about how does this show me God’s heart of love? And how can I apply this to show God’s love to other people? Right, so there’s a approach shift that needs to happen with the Bible.

Joshua T Berglan 37:22
I agree with that. And I, and I’m not trying to be disrespectful to the Bible, it’s just Oh, no, at all because I can’t I if I don’t read it. My whole everything changes. I can’t explain it. And then look, and I believe the Holy Spirit can make a James Patterson novel become anointed works. Because the Holy Spirit’s awesome like that. But there is something special about the Bible, especially when those words just like, come off the page, which is like still the strangest thing ever to me. Like, I’ve never had that happen with anything, but the Bible. So there’s something there. But I also do think some people put too much of the relationship in the book and not in the will will their heart that gets out of line to their heart. And look, and I’m not like, I It’s not like I follow it to the letter of the law. I mean, I try, you know, obedience to me is, is the secret sauce, to being obedient is the secret to everything. Because it’s not a rulebook, it’s freedom, obedient, sounds like prison to me. And it did, all through going to church and growing up and everything else. And that’s what I ran away from. And I’m like, Well screw that noise. I don’t want that life. I want to do what I want to do. But it was amazing. How after doing all that, I was like, Okay, God, I’ve done everything. And I failed miserably. Like, my life was a wreck now. Here it is. I’m in jail. The sixth time I’m facing five years, my whole life. Wow, I’ve just wasted everything. God wasted everything. Okay, now I want to do it your way. This is not exactly how the conversation went, because I was yelling and cursing at him and everything else. But eventually he called me down and started speaking truth to me. And it was a very, very powerful moment. But I was very blessed to get trained, not necessarily ministry training, but I did get to do the kind of Minister stuff. I got to do the Saturday night service, which in my own little special way, which is not preaching, anyway, got to do that. But I got to learn from him and be around a lot of other older godly men that have been through some things. And in the thing that I was so blessed to learn from because 98% of the congregation of this church was either an ex con or convict who’s a special church and I love this church. But I got obedience beaten into my head when I was there. And I’m so thankful for that. Because what I found was, yeah, obedience on the surface sounds like a really miserable time. It seems like all the funds going to be taken away and all my life, I’m not going to be able to do what I want. Actually, I found that obedience leads you to a much Wilder life than you can ever imagine. And there’s not a drug on this planet that can give you a wilder experience in the Holy Spirit. That has been my experience with obedience. I don’t know how that sounds on your ears. But oh, no, that’s what it’s been.

Debbie Henne 40:30
We were joking. The other couple of months ago, I’m on a team of prophets in my church. And we were all bringing our, when we meet, we start by all bringing what we’re getting from the God whether it’s a vision, a dream, a word, you know, whatever it is, and then we bring it all together and see what is God speaking to our church? And what is the direction that he’s taking us. And as we’re bringing all of our stuff we’re looking at sure to like, wild, like wild. And then somebody said, Yeah, who needs television, when you have God vision, like, but it’s so true. Like, when you start obeying God, he takes you to places that you could never even begin to imagine whether it’s in, in the spirit, and it’s a spiritual experience, or whether it’s in the natural through steps of active obedience that he makes you take. And it’s a wild ride. It is insane. And yeah, and I would definitely agree, it’s, it’s so much freedom, so much freedom, because God designed each one of us, he knows what makes us tick better than we do. So when we obey Him, even if, like, for me, I always had a huge struggle with fear. Even if it’s scary. Ultimately, somehow, it is exactly the right fit for me. Even if I would have never chosen it on my own.

Joshua T Berglan 42:06
The Holy Spirit has me doing things that make zero sense on the surface, and still make no sense. This has been the craziest six plus years of my life. And, and I think he designs it that way. So he’ll get all the crush. Because, like, the things that he’s called, calls us to do, it really seems like, well, one, I’m not qualified. For sure, not qualified. I’m out of my league. This is insane. It’s not going to make sense. Getting people to believe in this vision is going to be even crazier. Yeah, that’s my life. But you know why? I mean, I like kind of, I’ve always enjoyed being a rebel, but I being a rebel for God is like way more fun and gratifying. So, but I’m, I’m here for it. And it’s amazing, because his promises are true. And that’s the other thing too. And I think about knowing the spiritual side of this better than I actually the real world side of it, because I really haven’t been present on this planet, like cognitively, for very long, because I was dropped out of my mind angry, I was all the things so I wasn’t really present. And then having the ID was that’s a whole other, you know, added to the equation to this. But we’re just switching personalities. And even though God has healed me, where I don’t switch like I used to, it’s still there. But I lost my train of thought. But anyway, the point was that I just, I, this, this, this journey that he sends us on, is, is truly, truly a faith walk. And it’s more spiritual than it is what we see in the natural and and when people say walk by faith and not by sight. There’s like, There’s levels to that too. Because these are the enemy that we are fighting. And the enemy that I think is we’re about to have unveiled before all of us. And you know, I mean, you can read this paying attention to what’s going on in the world. And there’s a lot of different paths to go down with that statement. But essentially, I think that we are due for, like we are in the end days. And and I don’t think that can be doubted now what that really looks like for people and what that will look like I don’t really know. But it feels like there’s a massive shift happening right now in the world. Because the veil of evil is so obvious, like, the evil that’s in front of us the things that are happening, what’s going through the media, all of that. It’s so blatant that I have no choice but to believe that well, there’s getting ready to be some kind of disruption, something’s about to happen. There’s going to be a shift and things are gonna get really really crazy, especially in the spiritual world, because things are nothing there. Where are we like, what’s next? What do we do? And I think as believers right now, spiritual armor is the absolute most important. I mean, there’s a lot of things that are important with our walk. But making sure that we do that every single day. Because it could be at any moment that the spiritual war that is happening behind the scenes, is about to be right in front of all of our eyes to be seen. So I don’t know what that what the point of all that was, I think the head colds getting to me. But I do mean to say that we have a spiritual battle getting ready, I just completely lost it, I would be lying. I’m trying to like save this for myself. But I just did it. Anyway, there is a spiritual battle happening, and that we got to get ready for. So my question is, well, I’m not doing good today. My question is, how do we get the, the flock properly prepared, especially those that don’t really know, the spiritual side of all of this, because there’s some believers, that are your religious Christians, and I’m not making fun of it. But they don’t really believe in the spiritual realm and things like that. They don’t believe you believe in demons and spiritual, you know, takeovers, and all that. So how do we prepare the flock for a spiritual battle that most people don’t even believe will happen?

Debbie Henne 46:36
Well, I’m sure there are always spiritual battles. But I definitely agree with you with the shift. That was something that was basically being shouted into my spirit a couple of months ago. Very, I mean, so loud, it was like shift. So I’m interested to see how that winds up getting played out. And there’s always an individual level with that, and then a corporate level with that. So that is to be seen. Um, you talked about the spiritual battle. And you also talked about the promises, I want to kind of go to that quickly first. So remember, in the beginning, we talked about generational curses, but there’s also a promise of that the blessing is for 1000 generations. And, like a curse is only three, but the blessing. Mm hmm.

Joshua T Berglan 47:30
And that’s why we want to heal these wounds of our past.

Debbie Henne 47:34
Yep. So we need to heal. And when I, if God ever shows me that there’s something in the family line, I start breaking, and I go back to three, and then I actually walked my daughter’s through it to make sure we’re all covered there. But the blessing is per 1000, and somebody in my church pointed out, we haven’t even had 1000 generations yet, if you go from Adam forward in the Bible. So that’s really cool. But back to the spiritual battle, I had a interesting experience. Right about a year ago. I got I get a lot of dreams, I’m a dreamer. God speaks to me a lot through dreams in the prophetic. And he took me to this place, and I recognized the place in my dream, it was a place I went to very often in my dreams as a child, and I remember thinking it was my favorite dream to have. And it was almost like this other realm. It was almost kind of like outerspace, but not quite. And as a child, when I would have this dream, and I just thought it was an interesting, repetitive dream that I had. And it just never, I never really realized what was happening. But God was taking me into a spiritual dimension in a dream. And recently last Well, last year, he took me there again, and that’s when the dots connected on my head that this repetitive dream I had as a child wasn’t just a dream. It was something spiritual that God was showing me and taking me into. And when he brought me there last year, it was not quiet. It was so active, there were angels everywhere. And there was a lot of battle going on. It was very fierce. And when I woke up, I was like, tired. I mean, I was like, spiritually, like, felt like I had gone through a war. And I was like, that was when the DAS connected that this place that God took me so often as a girl, that was a spiritual dimension spiritual realms, Songs. where it’s it’s not quiet now. It is. They’re they’re warring. They’re warring out there.

Joshua T Berglan 50:09
How’s that different than not time travel? When you, you in your sleep astral project, How’s that different than astral projection?

Debbie Henne 50:23
Not very familiar with astral projection.

Joshua T Berglan 50:26
This is the thing Hold on. Before you go into that, there’s a lot of these little things because even the the gift of the prophetic I don’t like to say this I don’t because I don’t go around Cash App profits I if you’re a cash out profit, I’m sorry. But when I see that that’s another reason I’m off social media. Because when I see the Cash App, in a profits bio, I want to vomit all over myself because I recognize how prophecy can be weaponized. I can do it like a party trick. Like I’m my gifting I’ve very, it’s not I didn’t do it, God gave it to me. But here’s what I know about my gift. My gift is devastating, or it’s life changing. And I used to use it to hurt people. Now I can use it for good. But those gifts, you’re we’re born with them. And we’re given a choice, what I believe what we feed ourselves to what how the gift develops. Hitler was gifted, you don’t do what Hitler did without well a bunch of money. And having gifts and not what he did was wrong. I’m not saying it was right. But he’s gifted God gives us all gifts. So what I’m asking is this, what’s the difference between the prophetic and psychic because it’s really kind of the same thing when you get a word for somebody or a vision, and you can tell them what’s going to happen. Because I mean, again, when I was all meth out and coked out and an ecstasy and mushrooms or drinking or even when I was sober, which was rare back then I could get downloads like you didn’t believe I could, I can tell you your whole life story. Like if God God showed garbages I believe it was God, I don’t know why he was showing me the things that I was seeing when I was acting out my addiction. So what I’m saying is the language of these giftings. And these things that we do in the church, often are very similar to what New Age people talk about, they shift the language, but the gifting or the special thing they’re speaking about, is really doing the same thing. So I’m just curious, I’m only asking this is if you know the difference, what’s the difference between a psychic and a prophet, because they seem very similar.

Debbie Henne 52:49
So I would say that they are similar to us. Because Satan will always, always counterfeit. Whatever God does, Satan will counterfeit in the effort of creating bondage and deception. But God, His heart is freedom. And his heart is love. And that is really when I talk about connecting hearts to God’s heart. That’s how I see the gift of prophecy. I don’t have cash apps. I don’t even do donations. I, I just, you know, I get what you’re saying. And I get a little turned off by that too, because people can just like, make things up. Right? And then say, Oh, you can give me money because I said this. But I, I really believe in the gift of prophecy is for exhortation, encouragement, and comfort. And word comfort is that feeling of tender building up, but to get to move in. So the prophecy is to get people moving toward God and toward God’s destiny and vision for their lives and connect them to the heart of God. So it’s really a gift of love. It’s a gift of connection for the Prophet, to hear God’s heart and feel God’s heart in his vision for somebody else or for a church or body of believers. It’s a gift for that person to get connected to God in that special way. And a gift for everybody else who witnesses that message of love and blessing. But I do think that sometimes the gift of prophecy can be abused. Again, it goes through imperfect people who you know, sometimes there needs to be some training and mentorship there will sometimes download things that are, you know, like sin issues in somebody’s heart, and that is not to beat that person up that is to bring an exhortation and a comfort to get them moving in the right direction and to respect them and to reaffirm God’s Love for them and that you know what God sees this, and he wants you to be free. He’s putting his finger on that spot in your life, because he sees how destructive it is to you and the people around you. So it’s not to beat you up. I heard another prophet from my church say, and I think her advice was really good that somebody came to her to vet a word and said, you know it, but it’s a sin issue in somebody else’s life. And they wanted to use it like a bat. Right? God told me this about you. And she said, You know what? When it breaks your heart, that you have to share that with them. That’s when you can share it. Because prophecy is not supposed to be that.

Joshua T Berglan 55:48
Wow, see, that’s what spiritual spiritual maturity does for you. You can handle questions, my insane questions that I just keep throwing at you. It’s like, I’m treating you as my therapist today. And I’m just vomiting all this stuff. By the way, I’ve forgiven a lot of it. And my attitude towards it was like, well, instead of complaining, we’re just going to start us what we believe is the solution. But I I love. I mean, there’s so much grace, that you, you’ve shown like in answering these questions that probably seem juvenile, but I promise you, I know my wife upstairs is the same way. Like she has these questions. And there’s other people that have these questions. And there’s people that have just ran away from the church and Christianity and the Bible and everything else, because, well, they’ve been hurt by somebody that’s representing that, not understanding that we’re all human. And I don’t know where it started, where it’s like, okay, we put the pastor on a pedestal. Because he’s on stage. I don’t know if that’s just the psychology psychological thing, or if it was set up that way, I don’t know those answers. But the fact is that, you know, like some that something’s got to change. Because with what we’re talking about with where we’re going, I believe what is about to be unveiled, for people to see and to learn, and I’m seeing some of the reports from Europe, and some of the news that’s coming out, this is like, Okay, I don’t know how long it’s going to take for American media to go and start picking up on some of this stuff and tell people, but I mean, things are really the crap is going to hit the fan. And in, there’s going to be a lot of broken people and a lot of lost people. And so we’re just going to be needed. And it’s not going to be a time to argue over your interpretation of a verse, when there’s 90 different versions of that Bible that say something different, and you can fight about that. And you can waste time about that, but none of it’s going to lead people to Jesus. In fact, if anything, it’s gonna be like, it’s gonna be a turn off, like, the kidney would agree, why am I going to choose to serve God, where these two people can’t even agree. But with all the chaos and everything else that’s going to come, we as believers have to put all that stuff aside, and just be the hands and feet of Jesus. And I think that we just have this attitude every day anyway. make things better. You go somewhere, make it better leave it better than when you arrived. When you have an interaction with person, leave that conversation better than it was when you showed up. If we just did that, to me, that sounds Christ, like, I bet we could.

I bet a lot of people would get healed, and a lot of people would get saved. And a lot of people would get raised up into what God created them to be, and we could truly bring heaven to earth. I believe that that’s the opportunity that we’re gonna get, we’re gonna have to see some health for it. But I believe that we’re gonna get that opportunity. And as a believer, what’s kind of why I signed up in the first place. Like once I realized that it was like, oh, okay, there’s a dark world. And there’s the world of Jesus, I want that. Look, I want that for now. But part of me signing up is I wanted to go to war, because I knew I was built for something different. I knew I went through all that stuff for a reason, and not God gets to use it. So I love messages like this because I feel like it’s a cult of two different personalities, for lack of better term. But it is I found Jesus through the gutter. You were born into Jesus, so to speak. But these conversations are important because what you prove today, and I know all Christians go through trouble and, and frankly, just because I could when I gave my life to Jesus, my life became more difficult. It became more joyful, but it is more difficult is way more difficult. But I’m built for that. And I was created for that and I have the tools to be able to deal with that. Because we are, well, we are in a battle, right? But I’m, I’m excited for people like you that seem to have a real grasp on the love of Jesus. And in your I don’t know if it’s in your bio or what you say, you connect the hearts, you want to connect people, you want to connect people’s hearts to the heart of God and all that that is, can you share a little bit about why that matters so much to you. Because, you know, typically, again, the people that have gone through some, like lived in hell most of their life. They know that they have nothing without Jesus with Christians that had a little bit different life and not saying that you didn’t struggle, but you didn’t have all the surface level evil and you aren’t prostituting yourself and you aren’t shooting heroin, you weren’t doing any of that stuff. But yet to have such a heart, for people needing to know the heart of Jesus, that comes from a very personal place. So if you don’t mind, please share why you have that heart?

Debbie Henne 1:01:10
Well, I think it kind of was a progressive journey of I grew up in a very academic family, and always did well in school and pursued knowledge. And I just wanted to learn as much as I could, I wanted to know as much as I could and understand as much as I could. And in my own personal freedom journey that did nothing. It really did nothing. What changed me was getting a revelation. It wasn’t head knowledge. It wasn’t memorization. It was revelation of God’s heart toward me. That’s what healed me. That’s what changed me. And I love sharing knowledge. I mean, I, I put my heart into my books. But but it kind of is more, again, when you’re reading a book with information is still more information sharing. And there’s benefits to that I fully believe in that. But there’s a difference when you’re connected to the heart of God. And that’s a big part of the call and the gift that God has given me. And the assignment that he has on my life is to be that, that a juncture to be almost like a portal for opening Heaven to Earth and connecting the two so people can get a taste of heaven, and find that freedom, find that healing, find that deliverance because I can talk to you and I can give you tools and there’s 100% a place for that I believe in using tools backed by science and research and all that stuff. But there’s nothing like being immersed in the glory of God and connected to his heart where he downloads revelation will never be that

Joshua T Berglan 1:03:17
only comes being still and knowing he is God and being present with them. Like that. I’ve never had an experience or an encounter with God when I was on my phone. Right? Which, which is ironically, sitting still, for me is like the hardest thing ever to do. I mean, I stayed up when I broadcast I have a camera that follows me around just so I can wiggle. See being still with God. He’s found a way in my studio to trick me where I have all these little spots that I am comfortable being just sitting. So he’s gotten me figured out pretty well. He’s tricked me into being still which is kind of a miracle in itself. I listen I can talk to you for hours I and and we did We talked for an hour this was supposed to be 30 minutes and just maybe because my head cold and I can’t think straight I just kept talking but I you just super easy to talk to. I mean, like you talk about the love of Jesus. Well, I mean, this is what it is just like a welcome opening presents with a heart of love and okay, I’m just here to hang out and talk a little bit. Um, so plug your books, tell everybody where they can support you where they can, you know, buy your books, follow you hire you as a coach, whatever, plug everything you want to plug. Okay,

Debbie Henne 1:04:45
I have a website. It’s just my name Deborah And that’s the biblical way of spelling a DB o ra h h en There you can find all kinds of information About me where my upcoming speaking events are when they are, I have my book on there I have one published gentleness is not what you think you can get it on Amazon, you can get it at a local bookstore. I have a few more coming down the pike that I’m working on shooting and going to be working with my publisher for that as well. But yeah, but that’s where you can find me. I’m on Facebook at Deborah Henning author as well.

Joshua T Berglan 1:05:24
Awesome. I am so grateful for you. i I want to check out your book. I’m actually all of them. I don’t know what the other ones are about. But the gentleness is not what you think. I’m trying to teach myself to be a gentle giant right now. It’s not the easiest task, but God’s working on me. So

Debbie Henne 1:05:44
Well, you probably really liked the one I’m editing right now. It’s called War in Peace.

Joshua T Berglan 1:05:50
War in peace. We’re in peace. Yeah. Yeah, that’s like my brain

Debbie Henne 1:06:00
of warrior analogies with the armor of God and military uniforms, and bootcamp and mission operatives and peace and things like that. So

Joshua T Berglan 1:06:11
really, this sounds like a great animated series to I want to read that one. That sounds amazing. I’m, yeah, I’ve mentally prepared for this as if I was Joshua. I mean, that is my name. But like, I’ve felt since I was a little kid, you talk about seven years old, I guess when I got my first vision, we have seven. And it happened right after being molested. All my visions early on came from trauma. And then eventually they just started coming from, you know, like, randomly all the time. But, you know, you’re, I think you were talking about it seven years old for you to when things really started moving with God, and that, I mean, I didn’t know it then. But that was God showing me showing he was with me in the same visions, the same dreams, the same movie that he downloaded, was doing that throughout my entire life. And then when the day I gave my life to the Lord when I was in jail, because my second day in isolation, and I thought I was going to be there for five years. And I just like, had gotten to this place of like, oh my gosh, I’ve wasted everything. And wow, just God is I my brain just skipped out again. Anyway, my point is that God has been absolutely amazing. And he is radically changed my life. I’m so grateful for stories like yours, because they matter the matter for people like me that look at goody two, group two cruise ships, and just want to go, you don’t even know what I was like. And yet, you do because you wanted to kill yourself. And, and I know those feelings too. And they’re not fun. And it is a demon. And and I have to say thank you for this interview. Because again, you helped me kind of change my perception in the way that I see. Because my heart is for the misfits. But that’s incomplete. And it’s it’s, it’s selfish of me. And I realized that I’m selfish by that, because I’ve kind of snubbed myself against the church, because of how I’ve been treated there. I just said, Well, if you’re not going to welcome me there, I’m not going to come up. I’m not going to show up. And it sucks because I miss my church. But I’ve had a bad attitude that you helped me see about the church and or about the goody two coop two goody two shoe Christians. And you’ve helped me change my heart with that today. So thank you very much. All right. Well, God bless you. Thank you for being here. Sorry that this went over. And please excuse my brain farts mid interview.

Debbie Henne 1:09:10
No worries. Thank

Joshua T Berglan 1:09:11
you. I enjoyed. I enjoyed every minute of it that I remember. So thank you so much for being here. You too.

Debbie Henne 1:09:17
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. God bless you. Thank

Joshua T Berglan 1:09:20
you. Deborah, me, everybody. I that is so embarrassing when that happens. So I blame all the drug use. And I blame it head cold combined into one. Anyway, we don’t make excuses. I hope you found it. I hope that you got as much from this as I did. I love it when my my guest changed my heart about something because I’m a fighter. And I’m feisty and I got a bug up my butt wanting to fight for misfits and everybody else has been rejected from the church are not made to feel welcome. All right. I gotta keep checking my attitude because I got an attitude. So I appreciate Deborah for that. Gosh, I hope we talked about our books enough. We just talked. I loved it. I hope you did too. Thank you for being here. God bless you and go by Deborah’s book, especially the gentleness is not what you think. I need some of that to rub off on me. Anyway. Take care. God bless. See

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