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“Anyone who grew up in the church, or with friends and family who did, is familiar to some extent with the Bible.
It’s the foundation of the Christian religion and the book that millions of people claim to live by. Yet even though we’ve spent over 500 years trying to fathom it, many people still get what it says wrong.
You can blame this on bad interpretation, teaching, or cultural bias, but the fact is many religious people don’t know the meaning of the core verses they pass around.”
On this Gratitude:UnFiltered, we discuss 20 of these most commonly misunderstood Bible verses.
This will be a highly engaging broadcast so feel free to share your thoughts as this edition of Gratitude:UnFiltered is sure to ruffle your feathers… haha.
A special thank you to Element Bloomington Mall of America for hosting Gratitude:UnFiltered!
Joshua T Berglan (20s):
I broaden my horizons were playing country on the show now. Good song. I’m going to let it play real live right now in the three 60 television network broadcast all over the world. When Apple TV, Roku, Amazon fire, Facebook live, and YouTube, Instagram, TV. What’s up everyone? You guys network. I love the song. I’m going to let him play. You guys enjoy it.
I don’t listen to country.
Joshua T Berglan (52s):
Joshua T Berglan (1m 20s):
Shut this down for right now. Before the copyright, police tried to shut us down in the middle of this broadcast. What’s up everyone? This is gratitude. How many times have I done gratitude unfiltered over 400 broadcasts now and every time I can just completely wreck the beginning of the show. You do make me nervous like this is so out of my routine and everything. Having someone next to me, I’d be like off to the side of the camera.
It’s like, what is going on? It brings me back. So those of you that remember back in the day, the last time I had a cohost and when we used to fight on the air and all that stuff. Yeah, that was the last time I had had to share with a camera with somebody. That’s why I know eventually when I go back home, what’s up everyone?
This is gratitude unfiltered. We are alive right now from the lobby of the element by Westin hotel. In what city is this Bloomington, right next to the mall of America in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Amazing place. Absolutely loving this hotel. Keep extending my stay here because it is absolutely fantastic and there have been so awesome to let us broadcast here and it just, it’s fantastic. So a highly recommend this hotel, the customer services over the top.
And it, look, it’s not a, there’s not tons of frills or any of that stuff, but it is just a nice clean, uh, hotel. The beds are amazing. Just I, I love this place. So if you guys are ever in the Minneapolis area, check out this hotel. Um, so it’s funny. So the show today, um, we’re going to get into some stuff that I think is gonna make some people very uncomfortable, but I’ve heard and seen Bible versus misused and weaponized to hurt people.
Um, in fact, so much so that some of these Bible verses make people flee from the whole concept of God or even the willingness to understand who Jesus is and, and look the F the fact is this, the Bible a lot of it’s written in parables. Um, and, and sometimes in those also use some, the way that people interpret it, it gets controversial sometimes and sometimes it gets confusing and sometimes things aren’t always clear. And so there’s a lot of mixed messaging going around about what the word is and people using it to say, this is what it says and this is what you do.
And in my opinion, uh, that’s can be dangerous. Uh, I’ve always believed that the Holy spirit, one of the most amazing things about the Holy spirit is the Holy spirit is there. When you are present with the Bible and you’re one and you’re there with God and you’re in your alone time and you’re reading your Bible or listening to it. Sorry, there’s noise. And I’m not used to, um, we are alive, but you know, it you hear what it was I saying? Help me out here though. The Holy spirit.
Thank you. Gosh, you got distracted. Cause the noise. So this is why you typically don’t do th do things at a hotel lobby, but nonetheless, uh, happy to be here. So the one of the best things about the Holy spirit is the Holy spirit, not only in just your everyday life is this amazing guiding force. Um, it’s the ultimate, Hey, maybe you shouldn’t do that. Maybe you shouldn’t talk to that person. Maybe you shouldn’t do this activity. But when you’re in the word and you’re learning about God, the Holy spirit is there to teach you and to reveal things.
And that’s what I love about it. And that’s why I’m so big on the personal relationship with God that comes through the Holy spirit. So today we’re going to get into, uh, some of the most unkind, or what is it, some of the most abused versus some of the most misinterpreted, confusing Bible verses of all time. And depending on how this goes, this may turn into a couple of different shows. Uh, cause there’s a lot of content here. So we’re going to get into it, um, and look like always.
I’m, I’m even, I’m, even though I’m going to be reading this, it doesn’t necessarily mean I agree with what the author is saying. Um, but I’m going to have an open mind about it and we’ll have some dialogue. So your comments, all of that stuff are welcome. Uh, feel free to chime in and comment. Like always you guys network. Say hello and Jessica, would you like to say anything? I guess I should introduce Jessica, right? Jessica Toft is, or the code
Jessica Toft (6m 2s):
having a hard time sharing this part. It’s okay. We’ll get used to it. You want to say anything? Oh, I just want to say hello to have you in Minnesota.
Joshua T Berglan (6m 14s):
Thank you very much. All right guys, let’s get into this. Let’s have some fun. I had a blow up the print so I could see this. Anyone who grew up in church or with friends and family who did is, is familiar to some extent with the Bible. It’s the foundation of the Christian religion and the book that millions of people claim to live by claim to live by yet. Even though we’ve spent over 500 years trying to fathom it, many people still get what it says wrong.
You can blame this on bad interpretation teaching or cultural bias, but the fact is many religious people don’t know the meaning of the core versus they pass around. Here’s a list of 20 of these most commonly misunderstood Bible versus, Oh man, this one is going around everywhere today. Jeremiah 29 11 I’ve seen this one, used a ton recently because of this epidemic, so this could be timely for, I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
When I read that, it gives me so much confidence, right? It removes all fear and it’s, it’s, it’s such a, it’s, it’s a bold statement, but what does it really mean?
Jessica Toft (7m 39s):
You bought seems really obvious. It seems obvious that this is all for good.
Joshua T Berglan (7m 44s):
But check this out. And again, this is someone else’s words. Okay? So whether I agree or not, whether you agree, it’s fine. So you’re welcome to disagree. You’re welcome to say this is blasphemous. You’re welcome to say whatever you want to say. Um, but I do want your input. So entire churches have been started on the misinterpretation of this verse found in the old Testament finding a church based on averse. Huh? The most popular understanding that spurned the prospect prosperity gospel is that God wants you, yes, you to prosper.
How with money of course and happiness, a future of prosperity is enticing enough to fill whole arena’s with Christians every Sunday eager for their share. But mansions and Mercedes and a life tree from worry is not what the Lord was declaring in this verse. As Thomas Turner writing for relevant magazine. So perfectly explained this verse, Jeremiah 29 11 quoted to countless individuals who are struggling with the vocation.
We’re discerning, God’s will is not written to individuals at all. That seemed like a personal verse, right? So this is gonna. This is a little different here. This passage is written to a whole group of people, an entire Israel light nation. In Jeremiah 29 10 God lays down the specifics on this promise that he will fulfill it after 70 years are completed for Babylon. In other words, yes, God says, I will redeem you after 70 years in exile.
This is certainly a far cry from our expectation of this verse and what God’s plans to prosper us really means he did have a future and a hope for them, but it would look far different than the Israelites ever expected for this verse in every verse in the Bible, context matters. And the context for Jeremiah 29 11 removes any notions that God promises you a future of riches and comfort two through seven on this list is devoted to the most popularly reference versus when it comes to the issue of homosexuality.
Ooh, Whoa. These are sometimes referred to as the clobber verses because the effect on the people they’ve lost, lobbied against is often hurtful and damaging. Here’s why the religious people use them this way and have it all wrong. Um, wow. Yeah, this is going to get deep. I’m really quick though. I do need to do this. Um, we have a new sponsor, a new trick soul solar and let me give you some information on this company. I want to get into this really quick.
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You’ve used the lash out. I do too. I’m a big fan. So anyway, uh, thank you guys for being here. Let’s get back into this and I want to touch on this subject before I read anything about what it says, um, about the homosexuality versus as you guys know, um, that is an for me. Um, because of my background, you know, for years I was confused with my sexuality, battled it, um, whether it was through trauma, whether I was born that way, whatever, it doesn’t really matter.
But this is a subject that to me is dear to the heart because I get it. I understand. And I know that there’s a lot of men out there and women too, for that matter, that suffer in silence. Um, again, whether they were born that way and they were confused and due to the, the, where they grew up in the and, and, and how they grew up, uh, you know, it can really, really shape, uh, your beliefs around the subject. On top of that, there’s a lot of men that live in shame and our suffering silence, I mean, years ago, and we talked about this last night, I did an episode called going deeper and it was right around the time that I was hearing about some of my friends and people I knew committing suicide, um, because they were struggling with their sexuality.
So this is a sensitive subject and, and I think anyone out there that is judging people based on their sexual preferences needs to stop. Because first of all, you don’t know what they’ve been through and what they’ve gone through. And your very first thing, especially as a believer is to love. And part of loving is having compassion and being understanding. So when we get into this, like I don’t know what will come out of my mouth and what commentary either one of us will have, but I, I just want to ask that you have an open heart on the subject and you know, I know what the Bible says, it’s very, very clear this is going to get into, and you know it’s going to get into some stuff about this, but I just want you to have an open heart and an open mind about this.
And I’m not saying yay or nay. It’s right. It’s wrong. I’m not, I’m not saying that and I’m not going there. So, but this is going to be interesting. Yeah. So I think it’s important probably for you to watch the comments too. Yeah. Who is here? Hi Cheryl. Good to see you. Michelle. Oh, Michelle and Cheryl. They kinda rhyme. Good to see you guys. Okay, here we go. Genesis. Genesis one 27 to 28 so God created mankind in his own image.
In the image of God, he created them, male and female. He created them. God blessed them and said to them, be fruitful. And increase in number, fill the earth and subdue it. This verse is used most often to defend the argument that gay marriages and therefore gay rights are against God’s designed because gay unions cannot be fruitful and produce children. This argument from the start makes two mistakes wrongly assuming that the creation story was meant as a model for all humans, not just the first two who had to populate an empty earth and to ignoring the fact that God gives in this verse is a blessing, not a commandment.
Wait, ignoring the fact that what God gives in this verse is a blessing, not a commandment, huh? Dr. James Brownson writes an entire chapter on the misinterpretation of this verse in this wonderful book, Bible gender, sexuality, reframing the churches debate on same, on same sex marriage. Among this, among his many sound observations on the true meaning is this, to be fruitful and multiply is not given merely to the man and woman.
It is also given to the animals and that and this and is thus not a directive given uniquely to human marriage. This in and itself calls into question whether the essence of marriage is in view here. Furthermore, if the main purpose of marriage was to produce children than we would see infertility as a biblical grounds for divorce. But nowhere in the Bible does it say this. Neither does the church refused to marry older couples who are past the age of childbearing.
That’s an interesting argument to me. It’s, that’s a stretch, but it’s a good argument. But one of the other things, Dr. Miles Monroe, um, who we talk about in reference on the show all the time, I’m in there with kingdom principles, talks about be fruitful and multiply is actually meaning be productive, be actually be a, be a person of action. Live purposefully. That’s what be fruitful and multiply is supposed to mean.
So I find that I find this interesting and why they didn’t go into that, but maybe they will later on. Do you have anything to chime in?
Jessica Toft (16m 33s):
Uh, I mean it all the points and just in the sense that it doesn’t specify anything but to like go and do those things that doesn’t see you have to or you can’t or anything like that.
Joshua T Berglan (16m 48s):
Well, and the other thing too, and I don’t, again, I don’t know if it’s going to go into this or not, but aren’t we spirits and if our body, this body, what you see here is very good. Well I was talking to my great premature gray hair. Um, but if we’re spirits and this is just dirt like isn’t attraction isn’t love isn’t that spiritual love doesn’t come on the outside.
Yeah. So I’ve always like, I don’t know, like I’ve always thought about it from that perspective and that’s always been really confusing to me because if we’re just energy, how can you judge on the outside of, of, of like what the F what the body is doing. Like I haven’t really understood that part because again, if the focus is we are energy or we are spirit and this is just an outer shell, how do, like how isn’t like, what am I trying to say here?
Well, what’s more important or what’s real? What’s the reality of this? That’s what I don’t understand. Again, I would love your commentary on this. Okay. Genesis 19 four through five, before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom, both young and old surrounded the house they called to lot. Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them. It says that in the Bible I have to, I have to Regenesis I think, uh, the, again, the source of many misconceptions about homosexuality can be traced back to this verse taken from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Despite the fact that the sins of Sodom are listed and various other verses in the Bible that recall its destruction. Yet not once this homosexuality mentioned, many Christians maintain the belief that this story is about the fate that will come to any people who accept homosexuality as normal. Here’s some problems with that interpretation. The men who surrounded the house were threatening gang rape, not sex van. The Bible has got some pretty crazy stuff in it.
Rape, as we know today, thanks to a modern understanding of psychology is not about sex. It’s about power and dehumanizing other people. Rape is not gay.
Jessica Toft (19m 23s):
Joshua T Berglan (19m 25s):
Dang man. Okay. The point of the story was not to teach a lesson on sexual immorality, but rather to show the importance of hospitality and the punishment for treating visitors. Our guests with ill will. Dang. Okay. I would love any of you biblical scholars out there. Again, you’re welcome to challenge any of this stuff. I’m just commentating and again, I like that was even, I’ve never, I didn’t know that you didn’t understand that.
And again, I’ve heard so many different interpretations of different verses that it’s gonna make my head explode. I mean, I think that’s, again, I want to reiterate the importance of the relationship, the personal relationship with Jesus, to allow the Holy spirit to be your compass, to, to teach you, to guide you, to show you what’s to come, to show you what’s right and wrong, to convict you if you’re doing something wrong or something that’s not in line with your purpose. And what Leviticus 1822 I don’t think I’ve ever read Leviticus.
Have you? Nope. Do not have sexual relations with a man as he does with a woman that is an abomination. Well, that seems pretty clear to me. This is a great time to remind people of something they need to hear. The was not written in English, you know, something else. Do you know what the Arabic word for God is?
Jessica Toft (20m 56s):
No. Oh, okay.
Joshua T Berglan (21m 2s):
So Christians would get offended when you know, someone says, I’ll bless you.
Jessica Toft (21m 7s):
I’ve never heard that. I don’t think Minnesota people maybe,
Joshua T Berglan (21m 11s):
I don’t know. I’ve learned a lot of crazy things about Minnesota people. Like a, what is it called? Minnesota. Minnesota goodbyes. Do you know what a Minnesota goodbye is?
Jessica Toft (21m 20s):
But isn’t it?
Joshua T Berglan (21m 22s):
When they say goodbye, they don’t really leave. They keep hanging out. They’re there forever, like goodbye. And then like there’s another goodbye and then there’s another good guy and then there’s another goodbye. It’s like,
Jessica Toft (21m 37s):
it’s like getting on an airplane and then you have to sit and then wait for everybody else to get on. And then a rape check spot, the seatbelts, and then they have to walkie talkie yet around. It’s a very safe goodbye.
Joshua T Berglan (21m 50s):
I can’t stand it. It’s like Hawaii time when people are late. I don’t like that either. In Minnesota, you’re late. Oh yeah. Well you’re on time for me. Um, we’ll see what happens in a month. Anyway. All right, so this is a great time to remind people of something. The Bible was not written in English. The word that was translated in the King James to abomination was written in the Hebrew Bible as ever.
The word is used over a hundred times in the Bible to describe a host of things that are not permissible for one people, for one people group, but not another. It does not mean that gay people are, are abomination in the way we think of the word today. Fascinating. Um, the other thing too about Juno that King James T, the author of the King James, the reason why the King James version was published is because King James had a lover that was his gay lover and he’s the one that convinced King James to publish the King James Wilder.
And they were in a rush to get that Bible out first. So revelation and King James is not even a complete work. That’s true. And that’s, well, I’m a wealth of, I don’t know how helpful that information is, but it’s true. But that’s the Bible people used as the GoTo of like, this is the thing, but it’s not even a complete version. And I’m going to, I don’t want to get it. I, it’s just so easy for me to go down wormholes because you know, there’s been so much that’s been taken out of the Bible that really belongs there.
And of course, you know, he knock and like why was that book? And people, I’ve heard people say, well, it’s not Holy spirit inspired or it’s not God inspired. But who said that man? Like how do we, that’s why you have to trust the Holy spirit cause at that’s who’s going to reveal the truth to you anyway. But I think that’s interesting. So Romans one 26 to 27 because of this, God gave them over to shameful lust.
Even the woman exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Sounds like Skinemax men committed shameful acts with another man and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Again, that seems straight forward. Right?
Jessica Toft (24m 27s):
So what did, what are they saying that because it was not okay to do that. They went and did it
Joshua T Berglan (24m 35s):
like that was the reason that it was not okay. So they said, Hey, let’s do it anyway.
Jessica Toft (24m 39s):
Yeah, like that. Like for a bed in fruit thing.
Joshua T Berglan (24m 42s):
Hold on. Let’s read the verse slower. Because the way that when you read the Bible you, it really is best to read it slowly, not just rattle it off again. You’re not reading it like a James Patterson novel. It’s something to kind of sit and read slowly and a rhythm. So because of this, God gave them over to shameful lust. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust with one another.
Men committed shameful acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. I don’t think that it was necessarily a rebellion. She’s saying that this is what they did and shame on
Jessica Toft (25m 30s):
and now they,
Joshua T Berglan (25m 31s):
and there was a due penalty. And some people, there’s a belief like HIV was, you know, HIV was created by man. Um, but there’s a lot of people, a lot of pastors and preachers and other people that believe that HIV was God’s punishment for gay people. There’s people that believe that and and when they hear about people having HIV or being gay, there was people that with hate in their heart that say they love Jesus. They say they love God, that saved their Christian that go good. Those faggots deserve it.
I’m sorry. That’s not love. It’s not so some religious people find this one to be the most damning of the clobber verses it’s hard to read any interpretation other than the homosexual acts are unnatural. The verse even clarifies that these were homosexual acts of lost, not rape, which many people before have tried to claim the versus against homosexuality were really condemning as an extra kind of condemnation.
This verse is the only one that specifically references female same sex acts making homosexuality seem not something isolated to pedestrian and soldier rape like the other program pro gay Christians have claimed. But once again, context is everything. It wasn’t until I dove into early church history, rabbinical texts, and again Dr. James Brown Zinn’s book that I saw the true meaning of this verse.
It wasn’t a warning against homosexuality. It was a warning against excessive lust, which in biblical times and for hundreds of years after most people assumed homosexuality was a result of, I’m going to, I’m going to stop there real quick. There’s been an argument forever by some people that believe that some people are born gay and how am I supposed to argue with that?
Like if somebody feels that way, how are you supposed to know that some people believe it’s a generational curse, it’s been passed down from a family member. You know, maybe it happened because you were raped as a child or molested and, and that’s what exposed you to it. All of that stuff is possible. Like I, I can’t, I can’t speak for every single person. I can’t even say. I mean, and just being honest, like even with what happened with me from two for men and women, which over-sexualized me at a super early age, I mean seven years old.
But like even with that, I can’t tell you that I wasn’t already having thoughts or any of those things before that happened. I can’t even tell you that somehow I didn’t energetically attract that into my life. I can’t say that. I don’t know. Like I’m not an expert on that. Like I didn’t create me to know. So this is something that is just, it’s I think anyone that is just shaming other people over this is is that’s got to stop.
I could well, but even if it is a choice, maybe a habit was created or there was something that happened earlier in their life that kind of like it program their brain to be this way. And I know that when you’re, if somebody molested, it causes a split and their personality, that’s where borderline personality comes from or did for instance. But we have to be very, very careful, especially as Jesus loving Christians or followers of Christ, whatever you kingdom minded people and even non-believers judging on this is so dangerous to me.
When you don’t understand where that person came from in what if your judgment and condemnation only further traumatized that person. Let me ask you something. If you with any fight or any, any disagreement or difference of opinion, it could be anything. It doesn’t need to be something as polarizing as the issue of homosexuality. But any issue when you have a difference of opinion does attacking them or judging them for their beliefs in any realm.
Dr Pepper’s better than Coke or screw the Yankees, they suck. I’m a Mets fan. Like even stuff like that does, does that approach of attacking based on your favorite sports team, does that make you go, you know what, I think I want to be a Mets fan. Now, is that a bad analogy? Is it a bad analogy or good analogy. You called me a bat. It was, my analogy was bad. No, of course not.
Then why did you say it was about analogy? I just try to compare judging, uh, homosexuals to your favorite sports team, but it was a stretch. Hopefully you get the point. Okay, hold on. So let me back up to this part real quick. Uh, so it wasn’t a warning against homosexuality. It was a warning against excessive lust, which in biblical times, and for hundreds of years, most people assumed homosexuality was a result of what does that mean?
It means that for hundreds of years, the church and society assume that homosexual acts were committed by men who were inflamed with lust, that they grew bored of natural relations with women and moved onto concurring other men. The concept of sexual orientation wasn’t discovered until the 20th century, and what was natural for most of the earlier centuries wasn’t just heterosexual sex. It was heterosexual acts that resulted in procreation.
What religious people need to understand from this verse is that lust is sinful. Any acts driven by lust, gay or straight outside of marriage can be understood as sinful sexual acts. That is what Paul is warning against here, and that is what happened to these people when they turn their backs on God. But that has little to do with two committed, loving, monogamous adults of the same sex today.
I gotta see what the comments say here. Hey Laura, good to see you. Yes, lust is a sin. Absolutely. If we have not loved, we have nothing. Well said. Shannon. Um, I want to find a man that looks at my heart. I’ve been looking for a long time, but I’m not looking anymore. I’m working on me and someone will come from me or we will connect somehow. Laura, you’re a good woman and that will happen. Man. Looks on the outer man.
Looks on the outer appears but God looks at the heart. Amen. Thank you Michelle. I like that. Um, that’s actually perfect and I know you didn’t lose me, Laura. You’re good. Um, again, I like that because we do, we’re judged on the outside but God doesn’t look at that because we can put up a front, I mean this is not an Instagram post where I can, you know, put filters on and make myself look pretty or a pose in front of somebody else’s Mercedes.
Jessica Toft (33m 4s):
Right. I think Laura, perfect though. The whole not looking for someone is kind of like what you talked about yesterday with not asking God for money. Yeah. Because right now she was, she was looking for that one specific outcome instead of looking for what is inside of her, what she can do to better herself. Just like people stop asking for money at you, uh, look to serve, and then the things that you need will come to you.
Joshua T Berglan (33m 38s):
Yeah. I mean, if you’re living your best life, you’re living, you’re, you’re, you’re focused on what, you know, living purposefully. And I think if you’re in that flow of purposely and you’re living in obedience, I believe that God brings you everything you need and more in love too. That’s true. Um, let’s see. Okay, let’s go back to, so that was PR. Is there more, Oh my gosh, there’s more to this. There’s a lot of verses on this. I don’t even know. First Corinthians six, nine through 10, this is one of my favorite books of the Bible.
I love Corinthians. Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? That’s wrongdoers not being obedient. Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers, adulterers, nor men who have sex with men nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Once again, the Bible was not written in English.
The word used here that is roughly translated to men who have sex with men is the Greek word. Malika. Boy, you want to give that a go, Malika. Thank you. This literally means soft in ancient times. The insult of soft was hurled at men for a variety of infractions like wearing perfume or luxurious clothing. Not wanting to work or loving women too much.
Yep. Loving women too much or wanting to have sex with a woman too often could get, could get a man labeled soft. I figured that would be like a wife pleasing man.
Jessica Toft (35m 25s):
Yeah, giver. That’s a good thing.
Joshua T Berglan (35m 29s):
Yeah. Anyway, sure. There was plenty of men who are soft who also engaged in same sex acts, but we’ll look. History shows that not all of them did over time. Soft became a feminist, which the people that translated the book into English apparently took to mean men who have sex with men. How do you take a word and then you take one word out of a sentence, it changes the whole sentence.
Manipulate. If you add one, two, three, four, five words to a sentence that didn’t belong there, what does that do? That changes the course of history of all the clobber verses. This one is probably the most grossly mistranslated and misunderstood. How often or how we got from soft to men who have sex with other men just shows how much damage can be done by people who don’t understand context.
That’s what the whole freaking Bible like. This is not just on the issue of homosexuality, bisexuality or anything. It’s not like we weaponize the Bible and throw it at people. That’s what religion has done. Power, power, control. Like I don’t know if we’ll get into this. Um, I mean there’s a lot of of content here. Yeah. In fact, I think we’re going to keep on going and do multiple volumes of this. But yeah, I mean like tomorrow we’ll continue this and maybe Monday, Tuesday, just as long as there’s a good rhythm with this, we’re going to keep going because this is, this is why I keep saying over and over and over again that Jesus, the whole concept of Jesus and getting to know Jesus and the Holy spirit is much as it is about, we are a part of a body of Christ.
We are to, you know, to live, we’re use our gifts to bless other people. We use our gifts and purposes for other people. I mean heck, even our pain and our trauma isn’t really even about us. Even though we experience it, we still get to use that to be a blessing to other people. But this weaponizing of the Bible and the word, it’s been nothing but hurtful and painful. And you think about over the years how things just get grossly in MIS misinterpreted, like think about the people that wrote the Bible first and foremost.
Like there is a part, and I don’t know if we’ll get into this where Paul is basically saying women shouldn’t be preachers like shut your mouth and church and all that stuff. Well, you know what, some of the best, most powerful godly women and Michelle who’s on here and there’s several women that are watching right now. Um, I mean I think Michelle probably watches the show and here she’s a pastor. Like I think about all of these amazing, powerful, godly women that get onstage and share the word. How are they wrong?
Really? They, I, I just don’t believe for a second and of man and woman are created equal. Then do you tell a woman that she can’t be on stage preaching? I’ve even seen this in recent times on Facebook when people talk about that. Well, in this verse it says that women, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I shut up already.
Jessica Toft (38m 48s):
Well, and it, it pushes people away from even the Bible pushes so many people away because other people use it against them.
Joshua T Berglan (39m 3s):
Okay. Um, okay, Timothy one nine through 10. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous, but for law, breakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy, any residual, a religious for those who kill their fathers or mothers for murderers for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality for slave traders in liars and perjurers and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine.
The condemnation of homosexuality in this first depends on one of the most debated and little understood words in the Greek language. Our sin, Oh boy, tie and a brush up on my Greek
Jessica Toft (39m 52s):
Arsenault quaked tie arson Okoye type
Joshua T Berglan (39m 59s):
when you start broadcasting the show in Greece. So I can get some Greek.
Jessica Toft (40m 3s):
Well, I’m sure we could probably get one of those. The translator things.
Joshua T Berglan (40m 7s):
Uh, yeah, I’m going to Google this later. Um, it’s found first in the Bible and very few places other than scripture leading many scholars to believe that either Paul made it up or it was so rare. Kind of like the symbol for Prince, the unpronounceable symbol.
Jessica Toft (40m 23s):
Well, you had changed his name into it.
Joshua T Berglan (40m 27s):
It’s actually, it was actually a brilliant,
Jessica Toft (40m 29s):
well, yeah. Now that you say it.
Joshua T Berglan (40m 31s):
Um, let’s see here. Okay, I lost that. So it’s first found in the Bible and very few places other than scripture leading many scholars who believe that either Paul made it up where it was so rare that other, that all other references to its origin were lost. It translates literally to Mel bed or some other combination of those two words, bad referring to sex. It is notably a different word than what was used in one first Corinthians above because of the rarity of this word in the lack of it in other contexts, different interpretations of what it means exist.
Some think it refers to male, male sex acts, others to male sexual expression, and others still think it refers to men who engage in sex trafficking as the word falls into an Ord ordered list and proceeds a condemnation of slave traders. Oh jeez.
Jessica Toft (41m 29s):
I mean that’s like a wide range.
Joshua T Berglan (41m 32s):
I mean, that’s a interpretation
Jessica Toft (41m 36s):
and that they did that. Then
Joshua T Berglan (41m 40s):
regardless of what the word means, what religious people tend to get wrong with this Bible versus the meaning of what was being said, that the law was not for the righteous, but the law, breakers and rebels, which we all can count ourselves among all of us, so to single out our sin, a COTA from this purse and use it to condemn gay persons is a horrible misinterpretation. I think if you’re interpreting something that means it’s your opinion and that’s great that it’s your opinion, but and beating somebody up over your opinion is probably not the most loving thing you can do.
Again, even if you’re trying to convince them to be a Mets fan, I still liked that analogy or Steelers fan. First Corinthians 1434 man. There’s a lot of stuff going on in Corinthians, which I also said as one of my favorite books of the Bible. Maybe I’m going to have to rethink this. I don’t know. Oh, here it is. This is what I was just talking about. Women should shut your traps and church.
Jessica Toft (42m 48s):
You say that you, it doesn’t say that.
Joshua T Berglan (42m 54s):
Well, technically you if, well this is not really church. I was going to say that was true then technically you should just go.
Jessica Toft (43m 3s):
It’s us. Right? So this
Joshua T Berglan (43m 7s):
the church, wait a second. Yeah. If we are the church and women should remain silent in the church, that means women should just shut their mouth and not say a word all the time. By this logic, how do you feel?
Jessica Toft (43m 21s):
Everybody would be in really bad shape? Like nobody would find anything. Because you know women don’t be quiet. Nope, we are the reason you guys can do things.
Joshua T Berglan (43m 31s):
What does that mean? Oh, cause you gave birth to us.
Jessica Toft (43m 36s):
Well that to like maintain that. That’s, that’s why God Adam Eve, right? Right. Yeah, because he needed her. So what do you, what does she know? He needed her though. I know. Just like clearly.
Joshua T Berglan (44m 4s):
Yeah, because Adam was, he’s like doing this thing that’s like, man wrote the Bible. Adam was working on his talk show and you know, and he was building it and he was out in the field work in, he was working out, he was eating good and God goes, that man needs a woman got on the internet,
Jessica Toft (44m 25s):
Joshua T Berglan (44m 26s):
Nevermind. I’m not even going to try to do this cause it’s going to end up somewhere completely. All right, so no, in all seriousness, first Corinthians 1434 says women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission. As the law says, that just creeps me out thinking like reading. I don’t like that.
I never have. I asked my pastor about it and he goes, you should probably stay in your lane. Said to me, well, I know his wife’s a pastor. Pastor Melbourne. Yeah. He was like, but it’s so true. Story. Once my mother left for a mission trip, she was leading an Africa. She asked if she could say a prayer in front of the churches congregation. One of the male leaders refused and said in the Bible it says, women should stay silent in church.
This man later cheated on his wife and left her and their five kids. But that’s besides the point. Many men and women would agree with him and the women have no place that women have no place speaking or teaching in church. Here’s what they don’t understand. This verse is part of a letter from Paul written to an actual congregation. It was meant for specific people experiencing a specific problem.
When the pastor or whoever your preacher is preaching from the congregation and they’re not talking about this and they’re reading this first, I bet they don’t even read this verse in church. No, I can’t imagine. I believe this is one of those verses that no pastor preaches cause they would lose half their arguments, right? Unless they were in like one of the, well there’s like YouTube, Facebook. I mean I’ve seen posts and people like you. I mean that attack female preachers, first of all, again, if you are God loving human Jesus, loving human, a Christian, a follower of Christ and you’re attacking anybody, there’s a problem with that is not coming from love.
That is not being an example of Christ’s love. It all. So as Rachel held Evans puts it, these letters were written for us modern Christians, but not to us at the risk of sounding like a broken record context matters. The context here is that this specific church that Paul was writing to had a problem with a large group of women that were becoming disruptive and distracting and possibly hurting the reputation of the church.
Again, it would have been helpful if the Bible took the time to explain these things, but for whatever reason, and like this, his other biblical instructions like that, the church greet each other with a Holy kiss. What does a Holy kiss look like? Probably a really good one. It was probably why it was pretty funny. Okay.
Uh, with a, with a Holy kiss, this one stuck is universal and absolute for many Christians, it shouldn’t be. There’s no reason for us to take this verse and not the whole movement of scripture towards women. More on that later as what to reference as far as female roles in the church. Wow. Um, let’s see, Mary. Hey Tammy, welcome. Mary was the first to run from the tomb and to town proclaiming Jesus has risen.
So in essence, she preached his resurrection. Well done, Tammy. Well done. Let’s see. Yes, it’s simple for God. So love whoever believes. Keywords, love and believe. I love that. Yes, thank you. You did miss a lot. We, I would actually, Tammy, thank you for being here. I would love to get your opinion on what we talked about earlier. Okay. Uh, it says here, uh, they believe that scripture was taken out of context. Women were asking men about the scripture.
So Paul said for the women to be silent, but why like wouldn’t it be easier if you just, I don’t know. Yeah, there’s just seems to be, I don’t know. Okay. First Timothy two 11 through 12, I think we’ll do this one may be another and then we’ll do part two tomorrow. Cause I like this. A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
So is I wonder what’s more powerful submission. Mm. Or surrender. And what’s the difference? No, I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man. She must be quiet. This like first Corinthians is an epistle and a letter. Paul wrote it to help his friend and colleague Timothy with his ministry in Ephesus, Ephesus, Ephesus.
So most of the arguments made about context and number eight above apply. What makes this verse all more frustrating when it’s used to oppress women is that it only takes cursory reading of Paul’s other letters to see that he has no problem with women who teach. I like that again, to quote Rachel held Evans. Obviously Paul didn’t have a problem with women teaching in general. He honored Priscilla a teaching to the apostle Apollos and praise Timothy’s mother and grandmother for teaching Timothy all he knew about faith.
I didn’t know that he recognized Julia as an apostle. Phoebe is a deacon and you Odilia and who named sir Ken’s this syntax a Greek names, right? Yeah, it sounds like computer program. So as a church plant, right, they’re probably really pretty.
Jessica Toft (50m 54s):
I found that just certain,
Joshua T Berglan (50m 55s):
what does it say? Oh, submission is when we are willing to do it. Surrender happens. We surrender to God, not submit, which surrender when we are in love. So what does it say about submission and submission? It do it. If Paul truly did not permit all women to teach and to be quiet than it would make no sense for him to honor and praise the women above.
Like why even have that in the Bible. Like if they, if these authors of the Bible, the people that put it all together, we’re so freaking smart. Like they had a plan. Obviously there’s an agenda obviously. Why even have that in there or are they just skimmed? There’s gotta be another reason. Like why would they do that? Cause that is, that’s misleading. And if, if God does not create a spirit of confusion, then why and Sam bleep, would there be so much confusion and things taken out of context and used or put in the position to T like to confuse people.
Like I don’t understand that. It’s okay. The Bible was God inspired or God breathe. But somebody still had to collect all of this and put together who made that decision? A bunch of government people. Right, right. Man. So if God inspired God-breathed Holy spirit, yeah,
Jessica Toft (52m 32s):
but God’s inside of us and the Holy Spirit’s inside of us so we can feel what right. Wrong. The people that wrote Bible, we’re not God. Like those were people. So you can’t really just take it as what it’s written as if it feels different. Right.
Joshua T Berglan (52m 54s):
I dunno. I mean there’s, that’s the thing is that people, people would challenge that and say that your blast miss and you’re going to hell. You harlot. There’s people that would say that. Do you agree? I’m not, you’re not. I’m just saying. I know, but I’m just saying like even that statement, like even the, the, everything that we’ve covered in this, there’s people that are going to go, you’re, both of us are blasphemous. Yeah. I don’t really care what people say. I just want you to enjoy the content can be inspired.
Mmm. Okay. Hmm. I gather when a man is speaking, give him his honor and respect, be still and quiet and ask at a proper time. Being humble and timely with questions. If marriage is only worked that way, um, because Joshua they were talking over the preacher and disrupting the speed. Cool. We got into that. So they were told to be silent and not teach well done. What’s up Kimberly? Good to see you. Wait, I, Kimberly Tim, unity, order, respect, communication.
Well done. I like it. Okay, last one. I’m going to, we’re going to do 10 today. Ephesians five, 22 to 24 wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body of which he is the savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Go make me some brownies. I’m just kidding. Um, that was terrible. As a woman, I struggled. I mean, I’m reading here a woman, although as a woman I struggled with this verse for most of my faith. Why should I have to submit? Just because I’m a woman? Just Paul. Then God created women inferior. How can I call myself a feminist and a Christian if I follow a religion that says my husband is the head of me.
See like many religious people, I was misunderstanding these verses. Thank goodness for Rachel held Evans, another human being by the way, seriously, reader stuff. To understand this verse, you need to understand two things. Greco Roman household codes, huh? There’s a whole thing about that and the biblical culture of patriarchy. Patriarchy. In biblical times, women were literally property like cattle and slaves. In fact, as Rachel points out the verses proceeding, the ones above are all instructions to slaves and masters because these fell under the same category.
When reading Ephesians with this understanding, then it’s incredibly submersive because it goes on to command husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the church. It is another example of the ways the Bible when looked at as a whole lifts women up from their societal place, a property to one of loved and honored children of God. A person needs to look no further than Jesus repeated treatment of women. To prove this theory, what people need to understand from this verse is not how women should submit to their husbands, but how we should all submit to one another as Christ gave himself for the church.
Amen. Wow. I feel like that household thing is something you should look into. I’m going to look into that. Maybe we’ll go, actually, I’ll tell you what, we’re going to go into the household thing. We’ll combine that with number 10 tomorrow when we come back. Um, that was pretty heavy. I think it was interesting. Uh, see EA summit as to the Lord. If he is walking in love as Christ loves the church, when husband is walking as part wives want to submit it won’t feel like a task or burden.
Yeah. Tammy’s all, yeah, she’s a smart cookie. Um, wow. This is, I like this. I hope you guys enjoyed, um, if, uh, you know, you’ve, you found this to be interesting, insightful, uh, you know, share with a friend and um, we’ll be back tomorrow to continue this. I thought it was fascinating cause I didn’t know any of that stuff. I mean again, you know, I, I know what feels right in my spirit and I know, you know, I try to allow the Holy spirit to guide me in everything I do.
And I’m not perfect with that because I’m stubborn and hardheaded and you know, just sometimes I, I, I get in a mood and do whatever I want to do and I make mistakes and it’s like, Oh crap. And then I, you know, repent for it. But like these issues are like heavy, heavy issues that people have used to hurt others. And that’s why I love the subject. And again, I can’t say what she’s saying that from this article is 100% correct. I can’t say that cause I’m not a biblical scholar but I will tell you it makes a lot of sense to me.
Alright, thank you guys. Wait really quick Carla. Good to see you. My friend. Sometimes Christians fail to look at the word of God, literally what was going on in that particular time. We are all learning and growing. Well done Carla. We are. And that’s why I think we have to show each other grace and compassion and, and not beat the crap out of people because they may have a different interpretation of what the Bible means. But I mean, again, going back to the very first one, Jeremiah 29 11, I always thought that was about me or you know, an individual, not a group of people.
That was wild because people are using that verse all over the place right now to help them, motivate them and inspire them to get through this epidemic we’re dealing with. I think that’s what all of it is, is just to keep inspiring and teaching peoples that they can make their own interpretation. Yeah. And I frankly, I would rather have God correct me then, um, a man or, or, you know, human rather of God or the Holy spirit. Correct me for what I’m wrong. And so if I’m anything that’s been said tonight that’s blasphemous than father, forgive me, and if you’re offended, I don’t know what to tell you cause I’m probably gonna do it again.
All right. God bless you guys. Thank you so much. Uh, we’ll see you tomorrow. Thank you for being here. Bye-bye. I’m going to say bye.