A Conversation with Joshua T Berglan welcomes the brilliant, best-selling author of the books Turned On and The Pursuit, David Norrie for an inspiring conversation about truth, The Bible, walking in Faith, parenting, pursuing our dreams and much more!

Other than being a best-selling author, David co-hosts the Turned On podcast with his wife Angelike and is the founder of Speak Up, an occupational training program designed to help entrepreneurs, professionals, and young people how to articulate their passions and products with a greater degree of confidence, charisma, and marketability. Angelike and David have three children and devote their lives to creating stronger families and marriages through the foundational wisdom of the Bible.

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Joshua T Berglan

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Joshua T Berglan, aka The World’s Mayor, is a voice for the voiceless and is driven to elevate the passion, purpose, and mission of those he serves. Joshua is the Chairman of the Live Mana Worldwide Foundation & Live Mana Network, Shock-Jock Evangelist, International #1 Best Selling Author for the Book “The Devil Inside Me” a Producer, and Filmmaker. Joshua is an expert in the future of media and loves supporting others in helping make their dreams come true.

TRANSCRIPT 

Joshua T Berglan 0:00
Hey what’s up everybody my name is Joshua T Berglan and welcome to a conversation with Joshua T Berglan on the live mana Network. Thank you so much, wherever you’re watching it. I mean, if you’re watching on social media or any of those platforms, thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. But if you’re watching on the live mana network, thank you, thank you, thank you, you can find all of the information for our network right there. On that barcode. You can also find information about the mana worldwide foundation on the work that we do there. And then also find information for a book and everything else we’re up to thank you for being here today is actually he’s actually, he’s been a guest of mine on my old show that I used to do. And he’s become one of my favorite people in the world. Not only look from a talent standpoint, it’s probably the best one of the best writers I’ve ever read in my life. In fact, he’s here promoting one of his new books called the pursuit. And I started reading it, like really started reading it a couple of days ago, and it is great. I haven’t finished it yet. But I’m into chapter four. And it’s one of those books that you want to have a highlighter want to have a notepad, because it’s going to be it’s thought provoking. It’s challenging, it’s insightful, and really, it’s just interesting. David nori has an amazing writing style. And so I’ve enjoyed it. This is actually a second book, I think, because turned on was his other book, what I read first, and that is a great book. So if you haven’t read turned on, check it out. He’s also the co host, along with his wife of the turned on podcast. And it’s fantastic. David is very rock and roll. But he’s also what is another word to describe it, he’s down to earth. He’s lived a pretty interesting and fun life. He’s got a lot of experiences, a lot of cool stories. And all that’s great. But I gotta tell you, one of the reasons why I love David Norris so much is that it’s who he is, as a father and a husband. He is one of the people there’s one of the few that I watched from afar on social media and then getting, you know, getting to know him and his wife a little bit more over the last couple years. I him as a father, and him as a husband is is one of the reasons I admire him the most, because it’s been like, Oh, so you can be a cool kick ass dead awesome. Like, you know, because I, you know, sometimes I used to think and I’m relatively new at fatherhood. Even though I have a bunch of kids. I’m new at being a dad. And when I when we met, I had just met Jessica, we weren’t married yet. Just met the girls. And I didn’t know how to be a dad. So there were certain people that I looked to as like, so what kind of data they like, this guy is cool. So oh, he’s a cool dad, too. Oh, okay. So started paying attention. And there’s a few others. But David is that guy and who he is is a husband and watching the relationship he has with his wife. It’s encouraging to me it’s inspiring to me. And and I and I just I love it. So I could see your babble on and on and on about why I think David’s great, but you guys are gonna love him. If you don’t know him already. You’re gonna love him. And if you’re watching, or listening, because you already know David, and this is the first time you’ve been here. Welcome. Thank you for being here. All right, I’m gonna play a quick video and then we’re gonna bring David on. And who knows where this conversation will go because we were talking before we went live here. That conversation probably should have been aired because that was interesting. So you’re in for a treat. Thank you again for being here. We’ll see you in just a moment.

Welcome back, everybody. I am Josh with tea Bergland and welcome to a conversation with Josh What’s he Bergland alright guys strap in. This is gonna get interesting, ladies and gentlemen. Mr. David, Nori. What’s up, David?

David Norrie 5:50
Hello, Joshua, thank you so much for having me. I tell you what, I can’t ask for a better introduction. I feel I feel like my ego is now this high. But I know everything we speak from, it’s from the heart. So I just want to say so much gratitude for that I thank you so much.

Joshua T Berglan 6:04
Oh, man, I’m not only honored to have you here. But I’m excited to have you here. Because we, you know, I mean, ever since the first broadcast we did together and we text back and forth every once in a while. And we have these like really profound conversations. And you just come from this amazing place that the wisdom that you bring to the table is so unique, and the lens that you see life through. So I love you’re like one of the few people that I can genuinely say I love talking to on a regular basis. So thank you for being here. First things first, though, David, what are you grateful for today? And why?

David Norrie 6:43
You know, it’s ironic. I’ve been a father now for 10 years, and we’ve been on the road. Gosh, this is gonna sound like a canned response. I didn’t know what that question was going to be. But it’s perfect response because we’ve been on the road for the better part of 15 months waiting for a house to be built here in Texas. Now what that means is, construction is crazy. And our original closing date was in end of January, then it became February then march and and we just closed a couple of weeks ago. And so during that time, it was me and my wife, three children and a 70 pound golden doodle. And we probably were in 10 or 11 Airbnbs. Because we just didn’t know when the house was going to be so we were going month to month. What I’m grateful for is God is always teaching us we got here and we expected everything to be like oh my God, finally we’re here and it’s perfect. And life can just continue. We’re just going to celebrate every day. And there was this something missing. There was just like Angelique and I looked at each other and we’re like, but we wrote scripture on the walls. Before we came here. We had our real estate agent come over on the studs and write scripture we prayed for, for our neighborhood. And we just got here and we’re like, what’s going on? Like, it wasn’t utopia. But here’s the bigger lesson. At the same time, my daughter is in Taekwondo. Okay, she’s 10 years old. She was out of it for 15 months didn’t go into a dojo for 15 months because we’re on the road. So we found one here and yesterday, we convinced them let’s go back. Okay, so we go in there the first day. And we look and it’s sparring day. And my 10 year old daughter looks at me and she’s her eyes are just like, you know, there’s no if you’re a parent, you know the feeling they look at you and their eyes are like there’s fear and, and she’s like that I wasn’t ready to spar. I haven’t even been practicing for 15 months. And I don’t know if I’m ready to go in there and fight right now. And Angelique. I looked at her and we turned around I said every time you feel fear in your heart, know that, take that emotion and transfer it that means your dad’s he’s proud of you for what you’re about to do. So anyway, to make a long story short, she went in there and just crushed it. I mean, not only she fought two girls, and she was winded, you know, you know fighting shape is completely different than just playing around with your sisters. In a row was completely weighted I could see in her face and then they switched around and Taekwondo you don’t fight by, by age or gender or size. You fight by belt. So they put another boy in there against her. She fought two girls, and then went up against a boy and she held her own nose. She hold her own, she did great. And the reason I say this is because it grounded me. It’s God was telling me you know, that’s the proudest moment I’ve ever had of my child, because she looked fear in the face. And she tackled it. And it just took a lot of courage. And as a parent, you find these little tiny victories along the way, where you start to think well, the house isn’t perfect, the neighborhood’s not perfect. You know, my bedrooms, not perfect the lighting fixtures, and it’s so trivial. And then you realize we’re here to teach the next generation we’re here to raise up the body of Christ both spiritually and physically. mentally and it was just, I am grateful for my children today I went out and I bought them balloons and I just my little one went and she faced fear. And she went in there at six years old and was sparring is the best moment in my life. I think tonight, to be honest with you.

Joshua T Berglan 10:15
Oh, my gosh, okay, first of all a one. You just proved everything I said in the intro. Because this is why you’ve been such an amazing example for me. So I that is the most beautiful answer I’ve ever heard. And you know what, you’re absolutely right. My kids jumped off of a really high diving board the other day, and they’d never jumped off a diving board. I almost lost my mind. Because, you know, they’re, they’re scared going down the big slides. And we went to a waterpark, and just the bravery of like doing something new for the first time. I was just melting. And you’re right. It’s the little victories that end up meaning so much more as a parent. But you know what the truth is this, the little victories in my own life. And I don’t know if you can relate to this. But the same applies with myself. It’s like, while pursuing the homerun and the Grand Slam, every time I end up getting the Grand Slam or the homerun, it’s more anti climatic than the little victories. Yeah. Because I think the little victories are God showing you that you’re on the right track. And I gotta tell you, there’s nothing more comforting to me than knowing that I’m doing what God wants me to do. Can you relate to that?

David Norrie 11:31
Yeah. And it’s funny, because you and I share a similar path. I think that’s why we connected so well, because we, we grew up in a church atmosphere, we were lost sheep, we were one of the 99 pulled us back in. And then we started finding this, this passion inside of us for the Word of God. And it’s, you know, I got initially, because people automatically think if you’re a Christian, you got saved from one day, the next year, we’re a completely different person. And it’s been such a long journey, Josh, you know, it’s it started in 2001, with just a move out of the wrong environment, you know, I, God was telling me, if you continue chasing this thing, you’re never going to catch it. And it’s a false idol. It’s a false security. And you’re going to end up dead or in jail. And so I left that whole environment moved. But then I got another vise for eight years, and it just went from one to another. And then I met my wife. And then even then she said, You, you need some male leadership you need to a male Shepherd, I can, I can take you so far. And then I found that and then I was reborn. And then I wrote one book, and then it became too. So we always want to put our lives like you just said in an intro and a bio. And there’s these little tiny moments along the way. It’s scary jobs, because often the the moments between life and death or or complete disaster, and victory. And we look back and you say, if I wouldn’t have made that one decision, where would I be right now, if you wouldn’t, if you wouldn’t have woke up and asked for that book and that jail cell and had that epiphany, it could have went disastrously in the other way. But God saved you for a reason. And I think that’s what I’m seeing you do right here, you’re in your gifting.

Joshua T Berglan 13:21
Well, and it’s, oh, God, that I.

That word is such a triggering, but a good triggering word for me. Because it’s the same emotion I have for it from my own life, and knowing how special that is, and the relationship with God that develops through that, like getting to operate in our gifting and using our gifts and talents. Like, that’s a gift from God. Yes. But the real gift, I think, is how much closer it brings us to God. Because it requires that relationship with God to really go for all that he’s showing us and our dreams and our visions. And you know, when he places that in our heart to go pursue, yeah, it it requires that relationship because I don’t I don’t in my at least in my life. I can’t imagine getting even this far without him. Because I know what my life was like without him before. But I also know all the times I want to quit. Sure. I know how freaking hard it is to try to build something that seems so. I mean, you’re doing the same thing. You’re building something that sounds insane to try to do, especially when I started looking back at it now after this six years. It’s like Oh, my goodness, he’s brought me along way. But, but still even then It’s still gonna be tough. It’s, it is tough. Yeah. But it’s the thing that has made me also recognize just how amazing God is. Because of the little tiny miracles. It’s amazing. You know, and I want it for everybody. Because if we’re living this way, and I’ll be quiet after this, but if we were living this way, we don’t have time to be racist, we don’t have time to be judgmental. We don’t have time to criticize people over their theology. Because all we really have time for is doing what we’re supposed to do. And it none of that is being a jerk to your fellow believer, or, or someone that believes differently than you.

David Norrie 15:48
You know, it’s ironic, you say that, because my wife was reading a devotional this morning, and it said, you know, I think some people choose like this, this big over overwhelming God that there’s no relation, but we forget about the friendship with Jesus, that’s a daily thing. And, and it’s so hard to connect those two. And you’re right, there’s so many places along the way that you’re going to want to quit the world or culture or even your immediate family will rub up against you. And let’s face it over the last several years, we’ve seen many people fall, you know, and many people never had a chance to reach out for help and say I need help. They just, they just ended it. And that’s unfortunate. But what we can find out is that there is a surrender, and everything happens in that surrender. And the surrender may sound like a cliche, it might sound like hyperbole. If you’re going through stress with even a job or your your child raising or your marriage, or emotionally, mentally, if you’re going through stress, and somebody tells you to surrender. You’re gonna think well, what does that mean? You know, I mean, it means stop trying so hard to do it yourself. Surrender, not just not just in words, but in spirit surrender to Jesus. And I learned the hard way. You know, I tried to fake it a couple of times, I tried to say, Yeah, I surrender. But I really didn’t. That wasn’t until I was completely exhausted, and I literally surrendered. And it’s, you’ve heard this story from people who have saved before. So if you’re, if you’re out there, and you don’t believe it, or you sound that sounds like the story I’ve heard a million times, guess what, because it’s true. And Josh is here to tell you, you can fake a surrender, you can, I’ve heard people say it out of their lips, and go through the motions. It God knows your soul. It is not until you are really surrendered, that the blessings come through like a waterfall overwhelming. And you you’ve heard it again, cliche before, over and over and over again. But it’s so true, it doesn’t mean that the stress ends there. No, it doesn’t mean that once you surrender, and you you get some favor, and things start going in your favor, that it’s easy street, there’s always going to be something to overcome. But, man, you know what to get here. When I finished this book, My children literally clap that was the last day and I hit the button to send it to the publisher and my children, like, they come out and they’re all clapping. And they’re just like, Thank God, we’re gonna have our dad back and my, my, my lovely wife, Angelique. She, she sacrificed for the better part of two years, you know, I’ve written three books in two years. And we’re talking seven, eight hours a day, you know, out on the porch going, I need, I just need another hour baby. And she’s like, all right, or, you know, me coming out and literally shaking my fist at the air going, why are you doing this to me? You know? It was it was a, it was a journey for all of us, the whole family. So,

Joshua T Berglan 18:46
yeah, the pursuit, the truth that will set you free is the truth. They don’t want you to know. And it’s kinda like, well, when you hear the truth will set you free. There’s way more layers to it than what is most people assume. That title pretty much covers it. They don’t want you to know this truth. Because you were free from everything and you brought up something to about the challenges is, oh, gosh, I just lost it. Ah, I had it just it slipped out of my mouth. Um, the chat Oh, you when you were talking about the journey and facing difficult times and things like that. The best. The one of the truths that set me free, was knowing that in Christ, the outcome is guaranteed. Like the victory is won. So all the stuff that I’m going through, is just like the movie, I get to walk out through faith, like I get, I get to walk through it like I know the ending. I get to surrender my fear. I get to surrender, my worry, my insecurity, all of it, but that truth of knowing the outcome is guaranteed, is one of the most powerful Full truths I’ve ever known and burned into my heart. Because that allows me to everything I’m scared of face. Yeah. So this title, what did this title mean to you like, because the book in itself is is one thing. But I also know that picking a title for your book matters. In so what for you made you come up with this title? And what does it mean to you?

David Norrie 20:29
Okay, that’s a great question. And you know, as an author, sometimes things start off one way and another place. And this was not the original title. The original title was, How did I miss that? Question mark? How did I miss that? Because I felt like that was a perfect synopsis for, for what I went through, you know, here I am in my mid 40s. And I look back at this blur from my, you know, mid 20s to mid 30s. And I was functional. I excelled in work and exercise and everything that you would want to accept, I was lost, I really was that lost sheep. I found scripture. I traded and this is this is also you’ve heard it before. I’ve traded my religion for a relationship, I traded one thing for the fundamental wisdom. So I was like, How did I miss that? And I wanted to tell other people, how are you missing it, but then I wanted it to be more about I was on a quest, and I still am. I want to know more. I’m thirsty. So you know, the Bible says you gotta you have to thirst for it. Like you would thirst for water, you thirst for the Word of God. Like, like, like if you were in the desert, right? And so it is a pursuit. It started out with just wanting to teach people the things that from a pragmatic standpoint, as a person who, who really was a skeptic about everything, the things that I learned, and I’m like, this will help people. If you’re like me, and faith isn’t your biggest gift. And you need something that is is written and provable in science and to penetrate your stubborn head. That’s what I have. And then I realized there was a whole nother storytelling in here that was different. So then it became this pursuit. And then you know, you and I, we see the way of the world we know the lie, we know what the enemy’s doing. It’s, our scales have come off the eyes. So that’s where the subtitle came in. The subtitle is, and this is from my wife, of course, you know, we, we kicked around little things. And usually if I say red, she says white, if I say tomato, she says tomato. And she looks at me and she say, what about this one, the truth that will set you free is the truth that they don’t want you to know. And I did a little, you know, focus group with it with I put it around six or seven others, and that just kept coming back as the one that everybody really identified with.

Joshua T Berglan 22:55
Right? It resonates with me, too. I mean, the title alone is encouraging to read it. One of the things about your writing style, and I don’t feel because I haven’t read the whole thing yet. Like I literally, I get sent books and I start reading them. But if it didn’t catch me, I, like I have a hard time reading it. I’m not. I don’t love reading enough just to plow through anything. But what I found with your book is what first of all, it caught me immediately. But then I realized I can’t fast read this. Like go through and treat this. I mean, not listen, I’m not trying to say your book is the Bible. But I am saying like the Bible, it’s one of those things that you want to highlight on a notepad when you read it. It’s not like that. But one of my favorite things about your writing style. And I want to know where this came from. Not only do you do your research, so if you can back it up with science and real research, so there’s no fake statistics, none of that stuff. But then you take that, but then you sprinkle in pop culture and rock and roll and all of these references from movies and, and and I love that because it’s a that’s a really hard thing to balance. So when you are choosing a writing style, did you choose the writing style, or did it choose you?

David Norrie 24:14
Yeah, it chose me. It’s interesting, because, you know you we started this conversation about small victories during the day. Yeah, how little things matter. And I sat there this morning, listen to a webinar, trying to teach myself a couple of skills that you had recommended actually, and 15 minutes in I am a squirrel 15 minutes in and like, the victory will be for me if I get through this without having to check my phone or get distracted. Like if I can sit here for an hour. That’s victory. So I always wanted to come from a standpoint I want to keep people relevant. This is an ancient text. As my one pastor just said, it’s it’s he said, it’s relevant, because it’s relatable. You know, it’s timeless because it’s timely. Think about that. I’ll never forget that he goes, the Bible is timeless, because it’s timely meaning it’s just as critical today and just as applicable today as it was when it was written. But more importantly, you know, you and I talked about this, I was raised in Miami, I was one of my first jobs. I was a nightlife reporter for New Times Magazine, if you guys they have all across the country in Arizona, Miami in different spots, Atlanta. So New Times was the magazine I cut my teeth with. And I was a nightlife reporter. So I went out, and I love music. But my room here is Sinatra behind me, Dean Martin’s over here, Louis Prima, and you have John Coltrane, and Miles Davis over here. So I kind of live for pop culture and pop culture references. And I want, I want what I call like, anchors or tags. If somebody hears a story from the Bible, you need to anchor to relate it to what’s going on today, in order for it to stick with you. Yeah, Josh, I’ll never be one of these people that can recite scripture, verbatim. That’s an anointing and a whole nother gifting that I just don’t think I’ll ever get. You’ve seen preachers who’s just like, and you know, this says this, And here’s another scripture. And I’m like, Whoa. So what I have to do is I have to use another way, and I have to use relatability. I have to use pop culture, and things like that to break through to my listener, because that’s how I learned.

Joshua T Berglan 26:29
That makes sense. Yeah, you teach what you know. And you can teach from your experience that makes perfect sense. It’s blended. masterfully. I’m actually curious, though, because you are. I mean, I’m making up this term. Yeah. But it’s it’s very rock and roll theology. And when I’m, but I’m saying that your theology is accurate and my belief, but there’s a rock and roll element to it as well. And I because of your influence, and it’s amazing to me, how you can make something wholly out of a Led Zeppelin song. I remember one of your posts, it was about zipline. And I am like, how did he make that like about Jesus? Holy jeez, like, that is a real talent. So have you gotten any backlash for the way that you present? Jesus to people?

David Norrie 27:23
You know, that’s a good question. And it’s a risk, right? no risk, no reward. It’s not for everybody. You know, it’s ironic, because in that in that webinar, I was going through this morning and said, if you try and appeal to everybody, you will appeal to nobody, you have to have a niche audience. And you know, there are some fundamentalists out there that I could rub the wrong way. But you guessed it, every single chapter is a reference to rock and roll. Yeah, chapter one to chapter 14. They’re all titled after rock and roll, and there’s rock and roll nuances and references throughout the whole thing. My there’s a shirt that says, I communicate in music lyrics. And literally that shirt was made for me, I think. And so I get disappointed once in a while. The Doobie Brothers? You’re familiar with them? Oh, yeah. I was watching the other day. That song Jesus is just all right with me. And I’m like, Hey, I’ve heard this song a million times, let’s go to Song facts and find out what’s behind it. And kind of disappointing. The guys. Like, they didn’t write it. They got it from a gospel band. He goes, we’re not even. We’re not even really caring either way, we just sing the song. You know, but we had people coming up to our concerts throwing scriptures on stage. And this this whole group of Christians that would go wild when they heard that song, yet other people, other people were offended, because it said Jesus is just all right. So you see what happens in the context of our current society is you can have the same thing presented. Some people love it. Yeah, Jesus is just alright with me. And the other people hate Why would he just be all right? He’s the Lord and Savior. How can you say that? So you’re not gonna please everybody. But if I can get somebody out there, who is who’s ready to rock and roll and learn about this, then that’s my goal. And the last thing is my wife is very intuitive. She’s like, early on, she goes, who is this book for? And you know, as an entrepreneur, and someone who creates content, who’s the avatar, who’s going to consume it? And I thought long and hard about that. And I said, You know what, there’s great evangelists who save people. And if I save somebody, that’s great. But I narrowed it down and I said, this book is to wake up the lukewarm. This book is to wake up the body of Christ, the people who believe but believe, you know, like, it’s like Christianity light, you know, and I wanted to set them on fire.

Joshua T Berglan 29:49
Wow. That’s one way to do it. i We it’s very frustrating to me that cuz you’re bringing up the criticism and like how people can just see it from a different lens. And I’ve noticed that with my own experience, and you know, when you said I was an entrepreneur, like, I don’t really look at it that way, and I don’t look at it where my audience is, I just know I have an audience. And I’m going to be me and hope that my, the message that I feel led to deliver resonates with people. Yeah, that’s how I look at it. But if I start trying to factor in what other people are going to do, then I’m going to either self censor, or from an ego standpoint, I’m gonna go you know what I’m gonna piss them off anyway. And that’s, that’s a fine line for me, because we were talking before we started, just had a drag artist on. Actually, coincidentally, that’s the drag artists that was speaking out against what was happening with drag queen story hour and all the other stuff, and the agenda behind the LGBT, not community, but the agenda, pushing it down everyone’s throats where it’s like, Thank God pride month is over. But I had a rabbi on earlier today, and I’ve had and then I had another, I mean, I’ve like I have all of these different things that are outside of the faith realm of Christianity. But I want to have these conversations because I want to learn from them. If I go into it with an ego, though, because I my posture is, I’m doing this, to have this conversation to better understand what the other side thinks, or how they look at Christianity, how they, what their beliefs are, and I want to understand their beliefs. To have that dialogue, I want to come at it from a pure place. But I gotta tell you, I flirt with blowing up my ego, often with some of the guests that I look at having on because it’s like, oh, this will really get people riled up. So anyway, my point of saying all that is what I hope to be able to do, and I believe that your book will do this is it can bring Christianity Christians together, in places that they are otherwise very far apart, because it will break people out of their cage. And yeah, even Christians put themselves in a cage. And that’s what I’m inspired by, by your book. And I hope to do the same thing with the content we create. It’s a different approach. But the same objective is to get people excited about Jesus, and also get people excited about the responsibility that we have, as followers of Jesus. And I don’t believe that responsibility, correct me if I’m wrong, is throwing the Bible at people when we have so many different, not just denominations, but books, interpretations of the Bible, the way people interpret Scripture is different. And we fight over that. And the messaging gets lost in the fight. So I believe what you’re doing is going to help bring people together. Because if if we’re going to unite on anything, shouldn’t it be the love in what Jesus has done for us?

David Norrie 33:17
Yeah, and look, I’ve been on both sides. You know, one of the things like you, I always want to claim really being humble, and I’m not perfect, there are, there are times when my emotions get the best of me I can be very confrontational, not confrontational. But I can put myself in a in a, like a foxhole or barricade say, this is where I believe and this is truth. I go back to the foundation of wisdom of the Bible. Here’s the thing. Second, Timothy 316, one of the one of the most foundational verses that my mentor who were speaking of a Jewish man who found Christianity at 21 told me and it basically says, All scripture is God breathed, and is useful for teaching, rebuke, and correction and training in righteousness. So with my own mother, God bless her who is a die hard Catholic. And another woman I was talking to the other day, both Catholic all I wanted to say was, there are some things that the Pope is doing right now, that are not biblical, there are some very disappointing things. There are also some things about you know, praying to false idols, even if those what I would call a FEIS false idols, anybody but Jesus or God. Now, some people might interpret that differently. And the answer I got back from both women, and I’ll read it to you here, it’s similar. It says he loves me very much. I have a personal relationship, no priest, okay. Or man written book can do anything to change that and it was that last part that I had a disagreement with the man written book, and that’s one of the reasons really I wanted to get behind this because we’re losing so many people, younger generations. If I could say one thing about this book, and I mean, my book that I wanted to get across is the Bible is not a man written book. It’s not like if you can’t get past that, if it is a man written book, throw it out the window. It’s just a great self development book. But it says over and over and over and over again and an author upon author, ad nauseam, it’s one of the very first things I learned were the very first lessons, whether it’s Paul or some other apostle, or a prophet, they all say, these are not my words, Paul says, Here, it’s God breathed. Okay? Meaning, you know, you didn’t have a prophet 500 years and say, hey, get this message to Paul, make sure he puts in that part about this not being from man, but God breathed. The same thing we have to understand, if this book is not supernatural, then we have no business being on this show right now. You weren’t saved by it, we have. If the word is not supernatural, then it’s just another book. So that’s my big thing is this world is craving the supernatural. And we’re being taught by government and public school, that these were old men, white men, who had prejudices, and just, you know, they wrote the book from a bias standpoint. And what you’ll find out if you do a little bit of research, please read some scripture is that over and over again, it was not written by men, it was it was supernaturally imposed upon them. And they’re, it’s literally like their pen just probably moved. You know, you can’t write what Moses wrote. And I put this in the book, you could take the best authors of the 20th century, you could take, you know, Tolstoy, and Hemingway and you could even throw in, you know, Shakespeare and all those guys. And they still wouldn’t be able to come up with the foundational genius, truth and wisdom, that’s even in Genesis, let alone the whole Bible. And that’s what really put me over the edge was realizing that you can’t, this is not written by a man. You know, we consider Shakespeare the most fundamental, fundamentally, sound an inspirational author of all time, probably. And you’re like, this is way beyond Shakespeare, way beyond. So I want to I want to impart that to people is, if you’re looking at this Bible is just a book, and it has biases, and it’s written by men. That’s the first thing you have to get by. Because if you’re just looking at it that way, then you’re not going to get as much from it.

Joshua T Berglan 37:51
Okay, I want to ask you this, then. And I can appreciate that. And I know how supernatural the Bible is, I can’t. I couldn’t explain it without the Holy Spirit. Because it would just be like reading a complicated book, but the Holy Spirit definitely makes it alive and makes it supernatural, in my viewpoint. I will say though, I am bothered by knowing that certain books have been removed and certain text has been changed by the Catholic Church. Yep. Like each one Enoch. I don’t know about the other books of Enoch, but I’ve read enough of one Enoch to go. Yeah, that seems to really apply for today. So with everything that you just said, as much as I agree with it, I have that voice in the back of my head saying, but what about the parts they were they messed with? Okay, can you say about that?

David Norrie 38:50
So Enoch is a wonderful one, Angelique. And I, I mean, we went into that we thought the same thing. And I don’t want to take a stance in either way, because I’m like, you’re like, wow, there’s some things in enough that I would love to know. And I would love to know why it’s not in there. And so part of my big thing with a book is going back through the Middle Ages, having having one of the early Pope’s say, you can’t read the Bible. I mean, he, he made an edict, he said, We will, we will hunt you down, we will search you in your houses, if we find you with a Bible, it’s not going to be good. Like we don’t want you to read it. Right. The big thing is Martin Luther in 1517, he he nails those papers to the wall. And Martin Luther is like this, you guys are you’re charging people to resolve their sins, or absolve their sins. And that’s not good either. So there probably was a whole ton that they could have manipulated. But the other part is when I just had this conversation with Angelica is in 1946 is when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls, and it’s one of the most intact versions everything. And so the Dead Sea Scrolls, couldn’t have been manipulated all those years because they weren’t even just Up until 1946, fairpoint. If we look at that as the most intact, kind of you would call it a relic or archaeological discovery, then we realize, regardless of what might have changed, and regardless of what might not be there, we have to match up what we do know from the Dead Sea Scrolls. And furthermore, what we feel in our hearts and what we see. But we’re going to be tested throughout this next couple of years. And certainly, in our time, Joshua, we are going to be tested, we will see things with our eyes and hear things with our ears that will be intentionally meant to divert us. So we have to go back to discernment, we have to go back to what we call the inner voice. I did a podcast with a great pastor. And he’s like, there are probably eight different ways that God speaks to people. But one of the most prevalent and often is what you would call the inner voice slash discernment slash, the next step of that is the Holy Spirit, where at some point, you are going to have to go, this is what I feel and know absent of outside influence, and we will be challenged, there will be fraud, false prophets, we will be challenged what what what we see with our eyes, especially with AI, I mentioned this in the book, there will never be a tougher time to discern truth that we in our children will face. Because you will see thing with your eyes you go I saw it, I heard their voice, it’s real, and it will be artificial. And that’s gonna be the big test. And that’s where we’re going to have to go back and say, regardless of any discrepancies of what might someone might bring up, what do I know, in my spirit? What conversation Do I have? And have I invited the Holy Spirit into me to give me that wisdom and discernment?

Joshua T Berglan 42:01
Okay, that that is absolutely a great, great, great way of explaining it. And you’re right, because I can’t think of like, even with the things of Paul talking about being obedient to the government, and, and I’m going, I’m not obedient to this government. Like, they broke their covenant with me, they can piss off. Um, you know, I mean, there’s things like that. But that said, taking that out. There is no other book I’ve ever read in my life that comes alive, where words literally will lift off the page, it would go right into my spirit. I it is, I don’t want to say the word magical, because, but it’s super nice. We

David Norrie 42:47
always got to be careful. We’re second guessing all the words we use, because everything can be a sound clip these days, everything could be a sound, Josh was said magical, right?

Joshua T Berglan 42:57
Yeah, yeah, he Oh, it’s magic. And then it gets an eye. And I’m not I don’t talk very well in sound bites. But you’re right, that things can get manipulated and taken out of context. And what you just said about with AI, deep fake technology has been around for a long time. And it’s really good. Cloning has been around for a long time. And these clones are good. It’s it’s it’s technology is far more advanced than we actually understand. And you’re right, because and that’s, and I think that it was you that ripped this TV off the wall, right? Not at an anger. Oh, my God, I’m done with this. Because everything that plays out of it is meant to distract us. Yeah. And I love I love a good show as much as anybody and I love a good movie. But I gotta tell you, I don’t know, like I am now. And maybe it’s because I’ve gone down to many wormholes. But I can see the hidden evil, and almost everything that comes out of a screen. And I’m like, My children have to grow up with this. Yeah, what the heck are now is the TV still ripped off the wall? Or, you know, we

David Norrie 44:19
don’t have cable anymore. But, you know, that wasn’t that was, you know, my wife. Again, I mentioned her a lot because she catches me there was a fit of anger where it would have made a hole in the wall. But she’s like, I get it. You want the TV down, but let’s not put a hole in the wall. But we don’t have cable. I watch everything with my it’s unfortunate because you don’t want to but I can’t tell you how many times we turned off something mid show. And I’m just like, you know, it’s a great movie, hey, we’re 3540 minutes into it, then all of a sudden something happens. And I’m like, You know what, I’m just it’s not because the damage hasn’t already been done or because my kids aren’t mature enough to handle it. It’s just because I’m not going to allow that I want to show my children And that when I see something that I know is penetrating our house, that is not of the Spirit that I’m going to put a stop to that right away. And, you know, I’m not going to try and shelter them, I don’t want them to be, I’m not going to be that helicopter parent, eventually, they’re going to have to go out into the real world without me. What I’m trying to do is set a tone that we, you know, you’ve heard the scripture for as for me, in this house, we will be of the Lord. And same thing with cussing. You know, I’ve changed my tongue considerably. I used to think it was frivolous. Why? You know, who made up the F word, right? Yeah. My Catholic Mom Mom, who even said, it’s a bad word. So when made it up, why isn’t you know, glass, a bad word or something? Like that was my wife, she’s like, you know, you have a really foul mouth. And it’s just, it’s just not the way a Christian man is supposed to handle himself. So little by little I got better and better and better. And, you know, every once in a while, something comes out. But I try and tell my children, you know, that’s no excuse. Just because it happens doesn’t mean we go with it, it means we cut it off. And we put it away. And, you know, parenting is a hard thing. Josh, we’re all here. Words. There was a book that I talked about, because I did this whole chapter on manifesting, which is so popular right now. And I said, but if you manifest without the author of life, you know, that’s not a good thing. In other words, something may put that into your life but it’s it’s an alternate spirits, a counterfeit spirit. And there’s a book called the creative force, the tongue a creative force by Charles Capps. And it says that words are the most powerful thing in the universe. And, and we build our life in the Word of God conceived in the heart form of the tongue and spoken out of the mouth is creative power. So that’s why I tried to tame my tongue. That’s why we try to keep words off of our television screens out of our the lyrics of our songs. You know, that’s hard for a person that loves music, you know, what it is, and we’re like, and we’re singing again, like, oh, that’s, that’s not cool with me anymore. And you might say, well, it’s just a song. Yeah, but you know, I’m on a path. I’m on a path. And that path doesn’t allow me to go backwards. It allows me to go forwards.

Joshua T Berglan 47:26
I’m with you. In the music. I’m so I had to quit listen to rap music. And it bothers me because I freaking love rap music. And I love you know, I mean, I love tool, and I love all of these bands. But then when I started listening to the lyrics, I’m like, Alright, kit. I love the beat. But I can’t listen to this. Because it’s going to play in my head nonstop. I’m going to wake up to it, and it’s going to set the tone for my day. And if it’s not praising Jesus, when I wake up, and this may sound douchey to some of you, but not my problem. But if I’m saying, bitches and hoes and all that other stuff, that’s what I’m waking up to. Because I’m listening to rap music, or gangsta rap or whatever. It’s gonna affect me like it, I would be lying. If I said, music didn’t affect me. And what I hear didn’t affect me. It does. It does. It absolutely does. It’s one of the reasons I listen to the Bible when I first wake up, because I want good things going into my brain. Amen. Yeah, you know, and that matters. But that’s tough. Even with music, like I love house music. That’s my favorite style of music. So I’ve started listening to gospel house. Because, you know, there’s drug references in some of the other music. But I mean, that’s what it’s gotten in. And these are things that I never considered or thought to do when I first gave my life to the Lord. So I’m aware of that, but that’s what the relationship does, like, I don’t believe and you know, this, because you were talking about the journey early. It doesn’t happen overnight. And so many believers are so many people that give their life to the Lord, they bail, once they mess up. Or once that one, you know, things don’t go their way. And or they get they sin, and they think it’s done. They think like, oh, they had a relapse. So now God’s done with you. I remember thinking that, Oh my gosh, the best part of a relationship with the Lord, is how God teaches you through the mistakes. And you but you also don’t have to carry the guilt and the shame and the humiliation and all that with you. Because going back to surrender, we get that opportunity. And you realize that through the relationship so the reason why it’s not just going to church on Sunday, is because Would you talk to your wife only once a week and expect to have a good relationship? Oh, yeah, you’re expected to be good. Oh, gosh, no,

David Norrie 49:57
no,

Joshua T Berglan 49:58
Jesus You’re when you learn these things. So I’m going to ask you that. And one of the things that I’ve learned through mistakes, yeah, is the power of confession. Not in the Catholic sense, but the power of just saying, You know what? I stared at boobs too long today or I or if back when I had the real the two relapses, talking about that. I found freedom in taking the things that normally I would hide. Yeah, I found freedom and going, Okay, God, I surrender this to you. And since you told me to put a spotlight on my shadow world, I’m going to be obedient to that. I’m going to talk about it. And I’m going to release it. Is there backlash? Yes. But I’m also giving God the opportunity to use what would normally be poisoning me. Yeah. So I want to talk to you about this from a leadership standpoint. What is your belief about as leaders of men or have been a leader for families or being a leader for relationships? What is your opinion about talking about our junk as leaders?

David Norrie 51:12
You mean, you’re jumping,

Joshua T Berglan 51:13
authentic standpoint, not, oh, I’m a sinner, but actually going, this is what I did. And this is what I’m doing to improve it. And this is how I’m, you know, I’m gonna give this a god. And this is what we’re going to do about it. Like,

David Norrie 51:29
I’m going to show you I’m going to show you how real real I am right now. Because, you know, growing up in Miami, when you say, how do you feel about talking about your junk? That’s where my mind goes to? Like, I’m like, are you talking about your junk? Like, because that’s the old? Right? The twisted my mind is from years of growing up in rap music and rap culture. I got a de la Sol shirt on this has stakes is high, right? I mean, I still love rap culture, or the music, but sometimes not the culture. But here’s the thing. You know, in the Bible before it says, Be baptized, what does it say? What do you must? What must you do before you’re baptized? Ask for forgiveness. One critical thing, repent. And so repentance is one of those things that we don’t like a lot, because it’s shining the spotlight on us. And we feel like if we could ignore this sin, that it doesn’t really exist. If I if I can ignore the fact that I’m, I’m being an abusive spouse, if I could ignore the fact that I’m abusing drugs, if I can ignore the fact that I’m, I’m lusting after women, whatever your sin may be, then it’s almost like we’re kidding ourselves. Like it doesn’t exist, and God knows it does. So I used to be one of those prayer warriors who would pray for people would pray for my family would say how thankful I was for God, thank you for everything, my wife, my children, my house, pray for somebody who’s sick, pray for somebody who’s going through marital problems. And Jesus, if at all possible, could you please let me be successful in business right? Missing the biggest part, I miss missing the biggest part where were the repentance wasn’t there, because it’s the most difficult part. Even when you’re saved, even when you’re leading a life that 90% of other people might think is a is a story of life where you’re not even making mistakes, you know, in your heart, where you’re falling short, and you can’t hide and there’s nothing wrong. You know, we had a pastor once who said, I’ve been up here speaking in front of you for 20 years, if you knew some of the thoughts in my head, you might be surprised. He goes, but I can’t control what really comes into my head. I can only control what comes of that thought. You know, I mean, we would be kidding ourselves. If if you watched a movie that was a movie that had, you know, women in it, that we’re doing crazy things, and you could just totally be oblivious to that as a man, what you do is what you do with the thought, you know, and that comes into your everyday life. Who are you following on Instagram that you stop on? Or that you shouldn’t be following? What what songs are you listening to repeating those lyrics? Knowing that that shouldn’t be coming out of your mouth? And you’re thinking, well, it’s not my song and it’s harmless. Every person’s got a different viewpoint. But the repentance part is something that I’m working on at this moment that I’ll be honest with you, that I wasn’t very good at. And I think the hard part is for people especially that were raised in the in the Catholic Church, you know, that scripture about having to repent and confess to a priests doesn’t hold water with me if that offends people. I’m just sorry. I know a lot of people the churches turned away just like the same thing with the Scripture about the Pope, you know, because because Jesus said upon this rock, Peter, I will build my church. I don’t see how you get the pope out of that. You know, I don’t I don’t know. relation. But I do know that repentance is critical because we’re told to repent and be baptized. Amen. Now with my own father, who was 80 years old, grew up in the Catholic Church. I wanted to I want him to be born again. I wanted to baptize him. And he resisted, and he resisted, and he resisted. And finally, one day, he called me up and said, I’m ready. And he goes on, I want to go into that water. And I just, I want to come out a new man. And we went in Tennessee, we were in a river, and I put him under. And when he came up to this day, he’s like, something changed in me. You know why, though, Josh, I said, Dad, whatever is eating you up inside, whatever it may be. And I think my dad is a great man, I don’t I don’t even know what was eating up. But something was, you don’t have to tell me. You don’t have to tell a priest. But what I want you to do is I want you to come correct with Jesus, and I want you I want you to put that on your heart. And I want you to have a conversation and I want you to repent for whatever that is. Let it go. And when you come under that water, you come up, you are a new man. Does it mean you’ll never do anything bad again, never sin or never have a bad thought? No. But now you know that you can be forgiven. And that’s one of the foundational messages of Jesus in the entire Bible is forgiveness is available to everybody.

Joshua T Berglan 56:16
That’s so good. I have one more question. I’m gonna go back to honesty. When you are taking the TV down removing cable, did you have a conversation with your kids as to why? Absolutely. So you’re have You the man. Okay, now I’m gonna go a step further. Have you? Are you guys honest about like, Christmas and the tooth fairy? Like, What’s your stance on that? Are you still? Are you still pretending to be Santa? Oh, oh,

David Norrie 56:55
you know what, here’s the funny part. I will tell you, I will tell you this when we’re when we’re really honest with ourselves. And we like with spanking, let’s talk about spanking, okay. When we’re talking about spanking, I tried everything for a while I tried, you know, punishing I tried praising I tried timeouts, I tried reward system. You know, I try I read the books, I did everything. We just went through a hard time. Disciplining, you know, at certain ages, kids act up. And I went to spanking, and that’s a very controversial topic. And spanked on the butt, you know, with a little bit but you know, not to inflict pain, but just the act of bending over and spanking. Yeah. And as soon as I did that, I took my daughter up, and I looked in her eyes, and I said, Look, I said, I don’t want to do that, you know, and I go, you know, people will read into Scripture in the Bible, it says, you know, Spare the rod, spoil the child. And some people will say, well, that’s Old Testament, or that’s old fashioned. But what I do know is that God says, Honor your mother and father, and I do know that I love you. And I do know that, you know, I just want you to obey and do the right things. Now, we haven’t spent since that day. And I still don’t know things change, you know, there’s no, there’s no magic fairy dust that you sprinkle over, and everything gets perfect. But if we go back to communication, communication is the key. And it’s the same goes for the marriage. If you’re not talking about it, you’re not explaining it and you’re trying to hide things. The same thing that relates back to our personal sin. If you’re trying to ignore it, and pretend like it doesn’t exist, then it’s going to fester. If you’re having a problem with your spouse, if you’re ignoring it, and pretending like it doesn’t exist, and going to sleep every night, it’s going to fester. If you’re if you’re having a problem with your children, and you’re not teaching them and talking about TV and video and what’s going on in the world, it’s going to fester. Now we do want to protect our kids, there’s a certain thing that we grew up with an innocence that I think all kids deserve, without sheltering them, or lying to them, but there’s an innocence that they deserve. And I think these kids are growing up way too fast these days. They don’t they don’t want to learn about all this stuff. Joshua that’s going on in the schools that public schools are teaching them, they don’t want it. They just want to be children. And unfortunately, because of government because of the public school system, all parents have had to kind of hit that fast forward button and take away the most innocent beautiful years of a child’s life for no reason. Wow. No reason and that’s a strong opinion. But I’m that’s I’m very adamant about that.

Joshua T Berglan 59:45
No, I respect that answer a lot. Actually. Yeah, we’ve we’ve decided that we were just going to be honest about everything they asked about and if they overheard a conversation they go What’s that mean? Instead of running from it, we had to have it my my youngest overheard me during the broadcast and heard pieces of my testimony. And I and she goes, you went to jail? Yeah. Yeah. How many times? Six? Would you go to jail for? Oh, gosh. And I mean, I had to answer all the questions, but I’m so I was so scared, man, I’m not gonna lie. I’m, like, sweating bullets. About as much as you just made me sweat five minutes ago. Well, here’s what I’m sweating, going, Oh, no, what is she going to, like? They’re gonna be scared of me. And but it was amazing, though. Because it was almost like a they knew. And B, it was almost like they took on this childlike faith of going, I forgive you, even though I didn’t do anything to them. That’s what it was like. And I And to this day, I was so horrified that they were going to think I was a monster. Right. And they love me more, is what I experienced out of it. And I applaud you

David Norrie 1:01:16
for that. I applaud you. It’s not easy. It’s not easy. But here’s the thing. And we fall short that sometimes it’s for selfish reasons like myself, it’s probably more of a selfish reason for myself than than it is for anything else. But you’re right, even you know, there are certain parts that you want to, you know, timing is everything in a conversation. And there’s a difference between running from something and lying about it or ignoring it, or saying, hey, you know what, maybe this just isn’t the right time to address this. You know, I don’t want to kick it down the road, especially if it’s critical to a situation in the house. But yeah, I’ve been I’ve been a little bit more guilty than Angelique. Let’s just Let’s just say that Angelique has she differs from me on this topic, and it’s my fault.

Joshua T Berglan 1:02:03
But that’s, you know, what, that’s I that’s friendships, that’s marriages. That’s relationships. We’re not supposed to agree on everything. I mean, how boring would life be if we all agreed, and everything just aligned perfectly all the time?

David Norrie 1:02:18
Yeah. about it? Well, I had to ask myself about that a lot. You know, and we’ve talked about it several times. And I’m like, geez, from from a Christian standpoint, am I am I doing the wrong thing? Am I you know, and we want to justify things for our own selfish reasons sometimes. And I bet you that’s what I’ve done a little bit, you know, well,

Joshua T Berglan 1:02:36
but hold on. But in fairness, our father, yeah. And heaven. Yeah, he doesn’t teach us everything all at once.

David Norrie 1:02:46
Right. That’s good point.

Joshua T Berglan 1:02:48
So maybe you have a maybe what you’re doing is, yeah,

David Norrie 1:02:54
you know, it gets us back into the whole Christian, you know, Christian thing of, you know, we were like you said, we can’t judge because we’ll be judged ourselves. And really, no one has the right to judge us. But it gets back to that thing, I sometimes I do get, I do get judgmental, and I catch myself with and that’s the thing, I think if we go to talk about sin in general, it’s, it’s catching yourself and recognize it. So to get rid of a sin, you know, first time you do it at a maybe pure ignorance. But then when you start to know the word you start to know, then you have a little bit more responsibility. And sometimes you still do it in ignorance slash avoidance. But there will come a time where you’ll start to not only recognize it as it’s happening, but you’ll recognize the precursors to sin, and remove yourself from that situation before it happens. And I think that’s where Jesus really wants us. He wants us to go on that journey from from learning about the sin, being able to see it coming recognize it, but then see it coming and totally avoiding it, because you’re on a path to, to really walk with Him in a way that you weren’t before. And I think that’s why we’re here for only 70 or 80 years, you know, there’s so much more after this to be I write in the book that this life we have here, whether it’s 80 or 90 or 100 years from for anybody compare that span of time to being like, the first second of the first hour of the first day of school. And then not only do you go all the way through high school and college, but it’s eternal learning. I feel like if I can explain why we’re here on this planet, it is it is that first second of that first day of school and we’re just here to learn to get us prepared for the next stage.

Joshua T Berglan 1:04:48
So good. Dave, David, I can as always could talk to you for hours and I and just love these conversations that we get to have And so thankful that you’re here. Why don’t you tell everybody where they can support your journey? By the books? Because you have several.

David Norrie 1:05:08
So yeah, the first one, faith into abundance was a collaboration that I did with other Christian entrepreneurs kind of telling our stories of how we used our faith walk into our business. The second one was turned on and turned on was a lot about what we’re talking about technology, the intrusion of technology into our lives, how it’s ruining our relationships, how it’s, it’s causing us to think one thing and not really see something for what it is. It’s manipulation. It’s, it’s really It’s changing the way we think. And it’s deception is what the Bible would say it’s deception. And there’s a lot of that here. So it’s the pursuit, and you can find it all on turned on.com turned on was a thought that Angelique and I had Matthew 14, you’re the light of the world, do not put that light underneath, underneath any type of lamp shade or anything, but you want to shine it bright. And so turned on.com You can buy turned on the book there, you can buy the pursuit there. We have a ton of other offers. And you can see the podcast there by the same name.

Joshua T Berglan 1:06:20
Excellent. God bless you, brother. Thank you so much. Thank

David Norrie 1:06:23
you. I tell you what, man you are again, I know you said it before. You’re in your gifting. You’re doing a fantastic job. I love the way that you you embrace everybody. And you’re doing a wonderful thing. I just want to thank you for having me on your show.

Joshua T Berglan 1:06:36
Thanks, man. I appreciate you a couple. I should tell the wife and kids I said hello, you too. Alright. See buddy, David, nor everyone and check out his book. I as I said in the beginning of the intro. It’s just a great writer. I mean, I Mitch album, I think I said his name. Right. Great, great author. You know, I just, you know, he’s kind of reminds me of that, but different at the same time. I mean, it’s just he’s got his own style. But it’s just captivates you. So I highly recommend I’ve read turned on. I’m halfway through the pursuit not halfway through, but few chapters. And it’s wonderful. It’s great reading. It’s entertaining reading. It’s not hard to read. But there is a lot of very powerful wisdom there that you’ll sit with. And it’s not something you breeze through like a James Patterson novel. I don’t I don’t believe that. Because there’s a lot of research that goes into the books. And I just really believe if you have not already. You got to check him out. Check out his books, just great writing. Anyway, I really enjoyed that conversation. Thank you guys so much for being here. I hope that this was a benefit for you. And we covered a lot of ground, covered a lot of topics but really, really blessed for the conversation we had today. And I hope you are too. All right, you guys have a blessed rest of your day. And we’ll talk to you soon.

Thank you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai